Am 30.08.2017 um 09:38 schrieb Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>:
> I am surprised, to say the least, by these answers. Are we talking about > retuning to just about manage to read through some pieces to get any idea of > what they sound like or for serious playing? > Aren't we totally forgetting the historic recommendation to tune the > top-course (in gut) as high as it will go without breaking? When was it said? In the period of accords nouveaux and later? What's with the D-major tuning? Tune (or change) 16 strings to hold 3 strings (with the chanterelle at its breaking point)? Best, Andreas > Best, > Matthew > > > >> On Aug 30, 2017, at 7:58, Antony M Eastwell <eastwe...@me.com> wrote: >> >> Sorry-incomplete message sent by mistake! >> As I was saying . >> >> Ive often wondered, and experimented, with retuning a VT 10 course lute >> into transitional tunings, and I feel that, as Andreas says, it can be made >> to work, and is not as illogical as it sounds. You need to bear in mind the >> very sharp upward tilt in tension typically found on the highest strings >> of instruments in VT. My 10 course (67cms, tuned at A=392, all gut strings) >> has course 1 (.42 gut, tension 4.18 kg), and course 2 (.50 gut, tension >> 3.32 kg). Courses 3 and 4 are just over 3 kg. Retuning the top two courses >> to E and C for Sharp tuning, gives tensions of 2.95 and 2.64 kg. This is not >> that far from the tension of courses 3 and 4, and is playable, though not >> perhaps ideal. Of course, things are not so good in Flat tuning, but are >> still usable IMHO. >> Its worth remembering that for one reason or another (nylon??), we often >> tune lutes to pitches that are quite high for their string length. We think >> of modern G as suitable for the top string of a 60cm lute, but tenor viols >> (same basic tuning) are usually in the mid 50s (and are very often tuned at >> 415 as well). My Lacote guitar with a top string at nominal E (lets not get >> onto arguments about C19th pitch!) is only 62.5 cms. I feel that the very >> sharp upward scaling of the highest strings on lutes acts as compensation >> for the fact that the high pitch of the top strings leaves them without the >> mass to move the soundboard properly. Once you lower the pitch, this mass >> compensation is no longer so necessary, and you get something not so far >> from equal tension. I find this feels very relaxing to play on, and though >> it take a while to get used to it, it saves a lot of money on gut top >> strings! >> Having said all this, when I made a recording of music from the Wemyss book >> some years back, I used two instruments-same string length, but the 6th >> course of the lute for the transitional tuning pieces was a tone higher, >> thus raising the pitch of the top strings by a tone! >> >> It is worth remembering that the 10 course lute in VT has, I think, the >> largest open string range ever used on a single pegbox lute-2 octaves and a >> fifth (of a major sixth for some pieces that require a nominal Bb on course >> 10). Thats asking a lot of unwound bass strings-if I had been a player, >> lute maker, or string maker in the early C17th, I think I would have heaved >> a sigh of relief when I discovered the new tunings with their considerably >> reduced open string range! >> >> In a number of Ms sources-the Board book, for example, you find a group of >> VT pieces in among a predominantly transitional repertoire, and I wonder how >> many of the original owners really changed instrument for these pieces. >> I think we need to experiment before dismissing the idea. Incidentally, it >> works much better with gut! >> >> Best wishes >> >> Martin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 29 Aug 2017, at 16:03, Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: >>> >>> Well Andreas, I really don't know how you manage to tune your >>> chanterelle down from g' to eb', for example and your second course >>> down from d' to c' and still be able to play correctly. I certainly >>> can't. Gut bass strings are certainly more tolerant of changes of pitch >>> and can work at different tensions but treble strings are quite another >>> matter. >>> Best, >>> Matthew >>> On 29/08/2017 16:23, Andreas Schlegel wrote: >>> >>> I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute, >>> norm >>> ally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords nouveaux >>> lute >>> types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire (d-minor) >>> withopu >>> t changing any string. And it works. >>> Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it. >>> If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff >>> and the >>> other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see: >>> [1]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accor >>> ds_Darstellung.html >>> or >>> [2]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html >>> (the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a >>> better fo >>> rmatted design will follow in the next months...) >>> >>> It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period >>> restring >>> ed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which are >>> near by >>> the old practice. >>> >>> By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than >>> with m >>> odern string materials. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> 1. >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accords_Darstellung.html >>> 2. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken +41 (0)62 771 47 07 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch --
