That is interesting - but I was referring to solutions where you can
safely strum all of it because all notes are in harmony or in the
scale. :)
Also, I have enough to work on the fingering itself - and I still
haven't found out how to play the sometimes occurring 5 notes on 4
different frets...
On 25.04.19 15:12, Gary Boye wrote:
Ron, Tristan, et al.,
I've always wondered about the odd "L" chord in Baroque guitar
notation: a C-minor chord in first position, guitar tuning. Obviously,
it is best with an E-flat on the 2nd string 4th fret, but that's a bit
of a stretch for amateurs. The other version contains a D-natural on
the 3rd fret of the second string, which creates a sometimes jarring
Cm7 chord. What I usually do is form the chord as it's written, but
take my third finger off the string until it just dampens it--you
certainly don't want a B-natural open-string to sound. With the 2nd
string dampened, you're back to Cm and don't really notice that it is
only 4 notes. . .
Using the fretting fingers to dampen strings in this way might be more
common than we think; and perhaps sometimes they are actually notated
into the tablature.
Gary
On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 8:57 AM Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
� �Your question has to do with historical evidence of strumming in
lute
� �music, and you have answered it yourself by mentioning that the
� �technique was described by Newsidler. � But I like to point out
that,
� �historically, the purpose of tablature was not merely to describe
where
� �to put fingers on strings. � Tablature was a system of scoring
� �polyphonic music, otherwise only available in separate partbooks,
on a
� �single staff. � Effective realization of historical tablature
demands a
� �thorough understanding of historical composition and the ability
to
� �reconstitute this condensed form of polyphonic music by
recognizing and
� �endeavoring to highlight the individual lines in a piece.
� �We know from historical tablatures for baroque guitar that
sensitively
� �performed strumming can highlight the intended voice leading of a
� �chordal piece, and we have many wonderful examples of
20th-century
� �chord melody solos that highlight intelligently improvised voice
� �leading on guitar by the likes of Dick McDonough, Carl Kress,
George
� �Van Eps, and Joe Pass.
� �Historical tablature is not just a map of where to place the
fingers,
� �it is a reservoir of information, particularly with intabulations
of
� �vocal music and ensemble instrumental � fantasias. �
Essentially,
the
� �intabulator was saying, "Here is the music: play it if you can."
� If
� �strumming is an effective means of articulating the elements of a
� �polyphonic composition, then have at it.
� �RA
� �
�__________________________________________________________________
� �From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
on behalf
� �of Tristan von Neumann <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
� �Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 5:13 AM
� �To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
� �Subject: [LUTE] Question on strumming madrigals.
� �This video by Prof. Stefan Hagel, specialized in Ancient Greek
Music,
� �is
� �very interesting as it leads to a question that is lingering for
a
� �while
� �now that has been addressed here as I recall - and it pops up
whenever
� �I
� �see chords that require more than 4 fingers in the right hand.
� �First enjoy some Kithara playing:
� �[1][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWBo0rsuHU
� �As you can see, it is suggested and it seems supported by
iconography
� �that the strings were played with a plectrum and the muting of
unwanted
� �strings.
� �The strumming accentuates the rhythm, which is very important in
greek
� �music, as it is derived from the Greek poetry and the very
melodious
� �and
� �rhythmically pronounced language itself.
� �Considering that the Lute in the 16th century is seen as a
conscious
� �revival of the ancient Kithara or similar stringed instruments,
the
� �function of chords especially in dance music and in vocal
intabulations
� �would be also to support rhythm.
� �Yet, we do not often hear strummed lutes, though it is clearly a
� �technique at least in Germany, judging from the explicitely
strummed
� �pieces in Newsidler's Books or the Munich Manuscript, and early
stuff
� �like Dalza is often written to strum. These chords are written to
� �contain on all courses notes of an allowed chord, or allow
partial use
� �of the courses in one strum, no rules broken here if you happily
� �indulge
� �in those.
� �But when it comes to clusters for example at the end of the
fantasies
� �in
� �the Thistlethwaite lute book or in Albert de Rippe, some of the
chords
� �are very awkward to finger in the right hand (also in the left,
but
� �that's probably because I am not a pro...).
� �The most puzzling settings are in the Donaueschingen Lute Book -
5 or 6
� �voice madrigals are set correspondingly in the lute - leading to
chord
� �clusters that cannot possibly played without strumming if you
want to
� �preserve the rhythmic character of the original. Wondrously,
almost all
� �chords create a pleasing harmony or create the effect of a
� �Durchgangsdissonanz, even if the courses are all strummed. But if
other
� �fingerings would have been used, the effect would not be as good
or
� �would emphasize a note not favorable in the strummed chord.
� �The question arises: Is there any mentioning of this problem for
� �example
� �in Fronimo or other treatises about how to intabulate so you are
able
� �to
� �strum, even though only the notes that are "in line with the
rules" are
� �notated in the tablature (or as it often seems, only the frame
notes of
� �the strum), or implying such a technique.
� �Considering the madrigals in Donaueschingen could possible be
used to
� �accompany a singer, this practice would fall in line with the
early
� �developments of Basso Continuo, and would make a great effect. We
know
� �Luzzaschi and Gesualdo did it, but no tabs survived or were ever
� �created. Only recently, madrigal groups have added lutes to the
full
� �vocals, my favorite is this album:
� �[2][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rX53ymutgc
� �It was discussed in one episode of me:mo, and I found it
intriguing,
� �some seem to find it aweful.
� �I think the use of lute, ceterone and guitar is absolutely
enriching
� �the
� �madrigals, and some strumming is heard from the ceterone and the
� �guitar,
� �obviously.
� �A while ago I have recorded this idea with "Venuta era madonna"
by
� �Marenzio, and while sight-reading I decided to try to employ the
� �Kithara
� �effect (sorry, not a pro).
� �This is by the way imho one of the most beautiful lute pieces
ever with
� �lush harmonies bordering on impressionist Debussy-like stuff
� �(especially
� �with the ring of the additional courses), highly recommended like
the
� �whole manuscript.
� �Anyway, here it is, with links to the madrigal and the
intabulation in
� �French tabs are included in the description:
�
�[3][8]https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/luca-marenzio-ve
nuta-er
� �a-madonna-donaueschingen-lute-book
� �I would love to play this with a singer, but some of you (hi Ron!
:))
� �may be able to do it much better. I would love to hear the
Madrigals of
� �the Donaueschingen Lute Book done as lute songs.
� �Would you consider this a viable concept or is there no basis for
more
� �strumming?
� �To get on or off this list see list information at
� �[4][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
� �Virus-free. [5][10]www.avast.com
� �--
References
� �Visible links:
� �1. [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWBo0rsuHU
� �2. [12]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rX53ymutgc
� �3.
[13]https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/luca-marenzio-venut
a-era-madonna-donaueschingen-lute-book
� �4. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
� �5.
[15]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link
&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
� �Hidden links:
� �7.
[16]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link
&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
� �8.
[17]file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L1217-7875TMP.html#DAB4F
AD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
--
Dr. Gary R. Boye
Erneston Music Library
Appalachian State University
--
References
1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWBo0rsuHU
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rX53ymutgc
8. https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/luca-marenzio-venuta-er
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. http://www.avast.com/
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWBo0rsuHU
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rX53ymutgc
13.
https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/luca-marenzio-venuta-era-madonna-donaueschingen-lute-book
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
16.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
17.
file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L1217-7875TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
