Great playing indeed - though none of these pieces have any obligatory
polyphony :)


It would be interesting to hear a plectrum player tackle the Pesaro
Manuscript, which seems to employ the old plectrum style but has many
full chords in between.




On 25.04.19 19:10, Luke Emmet wrote:
Perhaps slightly earlier than you had in mind, but not so long ago at
the UK Lute Society we had a presentation and recital by Jose Luis
Pastor on the use of the plectrum in Medieval Lute playing.

His accompanying CD called "The Evidence" provides a very compelling
performance and demonstrates the capabilities of what can be achieved
with lute plectrum technique.

https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Medieval-Jose-Luis-Pastor/dp/B00ZFGV6IO

If you want to hear what an accomplished lute plectrum technique can
sound like, I recommend this. Contains a fair amount of strumming
across partially damped strings - similar to the lyre technique seen
below. And very musical performance to boot.

Best Wishes

 - Luke

On 25-Apr-2019 06:13, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
This video by Prof. Stefan Hagel, specialized in Ancient Greek Music, is
very interesting as it leads to a question that is lingering for a while
now that has been addressed here as I recall - and it pops up whenever I
see chords that require more than 4 fingers in the right hand.

First enjoy some Kithara playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UWBo0rsuHU


As you can see, it is suggested and it seems supported by iconography
that the strings were played with a plectrum and the muting of unwanted
strings.

The strumming accentuates the rhythm, which is very important in greek
music, as it is derived from the Greek poetry and the very melodious and
rhythmically pronounced language itself.

Considering that the Lute in the 16th century is seen as a conscious
revival of the ancient Kithara or similar stringed instruments, the
function of chords especially in dance music and in vocal intabulations
would be also to support rhythm.

Yet, we do not often hear strummed lutes, though it is clearly a
technique at least in Germany, judging from the explicitely strummed
pieces in Newsidler's Books or the Munich Manuscript, and early stuff
like Dalza is often written to strum. These chords are written to
contain on all courses notes of an allowed chord, or allow partial use
of the courses in one strum, no rules broken here if you happily indulge
in those.

But when it comes to clusters for example at the end of the fantasies in
the Thistlethwaite lute book or in Albert de Rippe, some of the chords
are very awkward to finger in the right hand (also in the left, but
that's probably because I am not a pro...).

The most puzzling settings are in the Donaueschingen Lute Book - 5 or 6
voice madrigals are set correspondingly in the lute - leading to chord
clusters that cannot possibly played without strumming if you want to
preserve the rhythmic character of the original. Wondrously, almost all
chords create a pleasing harmony or create the effect of a
Durchgangsdissonanz, even if the courses are all strummed. But if other
fingerings would have been used, the effect would not be as good or
would emphasize a note not favorable in the strummed chord.

The question arises: Is there any mentioning of this problem for example
in Fronimo or other treatises about how to intabulate so you are able to
strum, even though only the notes that are "in line with the rules" are
notated in the tablature (or as it often seems, only the frame notes of
the strum), or implying such a technique.


Considering the madrigals in Donaueschingen could possible be used to
accompany a singer, this practice would fall in line with the early
developments of Basso Continuo, and would make a great effect. We know
Luzzaschi and Gesualdo did it, but no tabs survived or were ever
created. Only recently, madrigal groups have added lutes to the full
vocals, my favorite is this album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rX53ymutgc

It was discussed in one episode of me:mo, and I found it intriguing,
some seem to find it aweful.

I think the use of lute, ceterone and guitar is absolutely enriching the
madrigals, and some strumming is heard from the ceterone and the guitar,
obviously.



A while ago I have recorded this idea with "Venuta era madonna" by
Marenzio, and while sight-reading I decided to try to employ the Kithara
effect (sorry, not a pro).

This is by the way imho one of the most beautiful lute pieces ever with
lush harmonies bordering on impressionist Debussy-like stuff (especially
with the ring of the additional courses), highly recommended like the
whole manuscript.


Anyway, here it is, with links to the madrigal and the intabulation in
French tabs are included in the description:
https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/luca-marenzio-venuta-era-madonna-donaueschingen-lute-book



I would love to play this with a singer, but some of you (hi Ron! :))
may be able to do it much better. I would love to hear the Madrigals of
the Donaueschingen Lute Book done as lute songs.

Would you consider this a viable concept or is there no basis for more
strumming?





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