I appreciate positive insights into similarities in music that in some
small way tie seemingly disparate cultures together. And I appreciate
the enthusiasm of discovery as expressed by younger lute fanciers. The
lute world is populated by far too many individuals who are absolutely
certain they have it all figured out, and who love to indulge in
cynical judgements when confronted by ideas emerging from outside their
zone of comfort. While research, time and experience instruct us to
temper the language with which we describe a discovery or an insight, I
prefer to encourage fresh ideas about old music.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
of Braig, Eugene <brai...@osu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar
Exactly, which is exactly why these "interesting new discoveries"
aren't necessarily. No musician generates music without any reference
to other music. Audible similarities are to be expected, especially
given the universal nature of physical acoustics. Now, finding a
collection of ca. 1600 Sikh music in an old Venetian library, that
*would* be interesting.
I intend no offense, but I don't see why these similaritiesâeven if
granted to be strongâconstitute exciting discoveries. . . . yet
again. Without explicit period documentation, these assertions read to
me as a form of "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" (perhaps specifically
ignoring a common cause) or fallacious faulty generalization.
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf
Of Tristan von Neumann
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 8:12 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar
This is no coincidence.
The musicians have classical education. Rite of Spring is the Pachelbel
Canon of the 20th century and every rock musician has probably heard
and loved it.
Also this one lifted from Bruckner's 5th:
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY
On 13.07.19 12:37, Daniel Shoskes wrote:
>
[2]https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/queen-we-are-champions-rite
-o
> f-spring/
>
>>
>>
>>> [News from India - please ignore if it does not interest you]
>>>
>>>
>>> A new interesting discovery I made will probably upset some of you.
>>>
>>> I have now evidence that Sikh music can be found in lute sources:
>>>
>>> The Ricercar "no. 17" from the Siena Manuscript is a Raga
>>> Dhanaseri/Dhanashri piece.
>>>
>>> The same model is also used in "La Spiritata" by Giovanni Gabrieli.
>>>
>>>
>>> Both mashups can be heard here:
>>>
>>>
[3]https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/siena-manuscript-ricercar
>>> -no-17-mode-1-raga-dhanaseri-shaan-prof-surinder-singh
>>>
>>>
[4]https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/giovanni-gabrieli-la-spir
>>> itata-raga-dhanashri-ii-better-mix
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are able to synthesize the two layers, you will notice it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why use Sikh models? They were relatively tolerant monotheists -
>>> probably safe to deal with when you are a Jesuit, music transfer is
>>> also easy.
>>>
>>> Even today, music is the main expression of Sikh faith.
>>>
>>> There are note syllables for smooth communication, most of the
>>> concepts are compatible with European understanding of music, but
require adjustment.
>>>
>>> The material for this topic requires more pages than I thought
(300+).
>>>
>>> I'm on it though. Some encouraging words would be great instead of
trolling.
>>>
>>>
>>> [Thank you for your attention.]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
References
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY
2. https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/queen-we-are-champions-rite-o
3. https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/siena-manuscript-ricercar
4. https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/giovanni-gabrieli-la-spir
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
