So what are the pros and cons for the lute world then?....
If we look at the guitar market, you can buy extremely cheap but
reasonably well crafted instruments.
(Numerous "80$ Guitar vs. 3000$ Guitar videos on youtube show this quite
well)
If one really puts some effort into production, I think prices of about
400$ for a playable lute seem realistic.
The other question is: do luthiers really want to train their
competitors on an already very small market?
Only if lutes are so in demand that they cannot cope with the amount of
orders.
Again, the guitar market shows that people want to play, and many are
willing to spend a few k$ for a hand made beauty.
That's why I always say: go to where the people are and play the lute,
don't expect them to come to your nerdy in-circles.
If no one plays the lute, speculations on how to have a mass market are
quite futile.
:)
On 29.09.19 15:53, Ron Andrico wrote:
>On a more "philosophical" view: wasn't it better to allow young
luthiers to
have a market instead of put this also in the hands of Chinese mass
building? If young luthiers will not have a market and will not be able
to
grow up professionally to the verge of the art, what you will get in a
few
years is the same standard, cheap instruments, maybe good enough but
without
personality.
Francesco
I just found this message from Francesco (in the wrong mail folder) and
have to say thanks for your words of wisdom on the subject. One might
say that LLD got what they deserved by seeking out a low-budget
producer of their instruments. The reason goods from that particular
locale are inexpensive is because 1) they pay their workers a pittance,
and 2) their business practices follow a path quite divergent from
those of the west.
While it is a good thing to take steps to make lutes more affordable to
a broader public, it would be a better thing to look at the problem
from a wide perspective. If we care about cultivating an appreciation
for the lute and its music, we should care about cultivating the craft
skill of making lutes. Why not put energy (and money) into apprentice
programs to train the next generation of luthiers? The shortage of
skilled luthiers is a very serious problem, and having a local luthier
would be a blessing.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Francesco
Tribioli <tribi...@arcetri.inaf.it>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 10:08 AM
To: 'David van Ooijen' <davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Lute List' <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thomann Canterella and LLD lutes
Exactly. In my opinion the right violation can be only on the brand
mark, if
it has been registered and if Thomann lutes had it on them. There could
not
be a copyright on a lute design, in my opinion, as they are from
historical
designs which are public domain. Probably if the LDD rosette was a very
special design they could register it but it is a standard original
design
that every luthier has used once in his life.
It is like the copyright on fonts. One can copyright the font file,
that is
the computer instructions that permit the rendering of the typeface on
screen and printer, but cannot copyright the typeface, the actual
aspect of
the characters. If there is some special lute feature exclusive of LDD
lutes, that could be copyrighted, but if they are "almost" traditional
I
think everyone is authorized to make an identical lute. At the end it
is
even difficult to say if the plan used is protected. In principle yes,
but
one could have copied one of the already built lutes, as it is usually
done
with the museum lutes, and have his own plane.
To be honest, in this case it seems there is not even a guarantee that
those
lutes didn't come from the same factory. If this is the case both
Thomann
and LDD have been tricked by the Chinese makers and LDD should complain
with
the Chinese maker, if there is a contract of exclusive supply. If the
Chinese didn't sign a contract in exclusive they might even be in their
right to sell the same lute to other brands...
On a more "philosophical" view: wasn't it better to allow young
luthiers to
have a market instead of put this also in the hands of Chinese mass
building? If young luthiers will not have a market and will not be able
to
grow up professionally to the verge of the art, what you will get in a
few
years is the same standard, cheap instruments, maybe good enough but
without
personality.
Francesco
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-arc@new-old-
> mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> Per conto di David van Ooijen
> Inviato: venerdì 20 settembre 2019 11:00
> Cc: Lute List <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Thomann Canterella and LLD lutes
>
> I think the author of the video is too quick in accusing Thomann
> instead of the Chinese supplier. Chinese suppliers of copied
> instruments often use the pictures from the originals, and not
form
> their own work. If you go internet shopping for a cheap Chinese
Gibson,
> Fender or fancy jazz guitar, you'll find the suppliers use the
pictures
> taken from the websites of the original guitars, and not pictures
from
> what you will actually get. I'm sure Thomann violates copyright
laws by
> distributing these instruments, if they actually did because in
all the
> stories I haven't heard anyone yet who actually bought one of the
> Thomann Chanterelle copycat lutes, but I think the focus of LDD
should
> be at looking at what's going on at their Chinese lute supplier.
> On a side note. I'm interested in the copyright on a historically
> accurate lute. If a luthier makes a historically accurate lute,
whose
> copyright are you infringing if you make that same historically
> accurate lute?
> David
> *******************************
> David van Ooijen
> [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
> *******************************
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 10:39, Anthony Hind
> <[3]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Bruno and other Lutenists
> Following on from questions raised by Bruno Carneiro
and
> others
> about Thomann Canterlla lutes being possible copies of LLD
lutes,
> I see
> Braedon Hofmann has posted this video about this question:
> [1][4]https://youtu.be/VcOIeVwCOv0
> Regards
> Anthony
> [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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