Dear Monica,
I'm sure you're right, Watteau's interest was the pose not the instrument.
Indeed the same pose was adapted several times about 25 years later
[but seen from the front] by Nicolas Lancret, an admirer of Watteau.
http://www2.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_88ee1503_p.jpg
But the Lancret omits those straining fingers to produce a much more
anodyne effect.
Best wishes,
David
At 07:35 +0100 18/7/20, Monica Hall wrote:
Dear David
Thank you for the photo. It does make it much clearer what the
player is doing. I tried to take a photo of myself with my guitar -
but it didn't work as it is a different shape and the pegs go
through the back of the head.
I think Watteau must have been more interested in reproducing the
striking posture of the player rather than the instrument. This may
often be the case with paintings which aren't always a reliable
source of information.
Best wishes
Monica
On 17 July 2020 at 19:20 David Van Edwards <da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Monica,
There are two separate issues here, the lute and pegbox itself are
rather odd and dubious and I suspect Watteau didn't really care.
The position of the hand is a separate matter and it seems entirely
possible to me. To demonstrate, I've just taken a photo posed in the
same way as much as possible in the short time you have with a self
timer!
> http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/Watteaupose.htm
It was extra awkward because the half-completed student lute had no
pegs so I've held one with thumb and first finger. Had there been a
peg it would have been possible to turn it!
Best wishes,
David
At 17:32 +0100 17/7/20, Monica Hall wrote:
>I still don't get it!
>
>Neither picture seems to make sense to me even when put side to
>side. In the Lute player the back view of the instrument is shown
>but the peg box is skewed to the front. The peg box is curved and
>the pegs inserted laterally.
>
>In the Theorbo player the back view of the instrument is shown and
>the lower peg box is in line with the neck but the upper peg box is
>skewed to the front.
>
>With your left arm stretched out it is almost impossible to get your
>hand into the position shown. And where is his right arm. Normally
>you would be plucking the string to hear if it were in tune.
>Monica
>
>> On 17 July 2020 at 12:12 David Van Edwards
<da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Monica,
>>
>> There's another related Watteau painting in the Wallace collection
>> (Pour nous prouver que cette belle) showing the same hand in much
>> more detail. Different instrument so the pegbox is a bit narrower and
>> that maybe makes the hand more possible. But the brushwork here shows
>> that Watteau clearly enjoyed the extreme muscularity and effort of
>> the fingers which is such a contrast to the languid feeling of the
>> rest of the painting. These fingers are in many ways the focal point
>> of the painting and the difficulty is the message.
>>
>> I think the other commenters are right, it is the two middle fingers
>> holding up the pegbox while the first finger and thumb turn the peg.
>> The little finger meanwhile is curled up with the effort.
>>
>> You can see it here thanks to the ArtUK collection.
>>
> >
>
>https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/pour-nous-prouver-que-cette-belle-209396/view_as/grid/search/keyword:pour-nous-prouver-que-cette-belle/page/1#
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> David
>>
>> At 10:50 +0100 17/7/20, Monica Hall wrote:
>> >"Les charmes de la vie" is a well-known painting by Watteau in the
>> >Wallace Collection. You just need to put in the title "Les charmes
>> >de la vie" to bring up several examples of it.
>> >
>> >However, what puzzles me is the odd position of his left arm and
>> >hand which seem to me to be anatomically impossible. It looks as if
> >> >his fingers are stopping the back of the neck. Even if he was tuning
>> >it it couldn't be like that. What do the rest of you think. Am I
>> >missing somthing crucial?
>> >
>> >As ever
>> >
>> >Monica
>> >--
>> >
>> >To get on or off this list see list information at
>> >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Smokehouse,
>> 6 Whitwell Road,
>> Norwich, NR1 4HB
>> England.
>>
>> Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
> > Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
>>
>>
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
