Dear David Thank you for this. Seen from in front it is clearer what is happening. Best wishes Monica
> On 18 July 2020 at 11:47 David Van Edwards <da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote: > > > Dear Monica, > > I'm sure you're right, Watteau's interest was the pose not the instrument. > > Indeed the same pose was adapted several times about 25 years later > [but seen from the front] by Nicolas Lancret, an admirer of Watteau. > > http://www2.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_88ee1503_p.jpg > > But the Lancret omits those straining fingers to produce a much more > anodyne effect. > > Best wishes, > > David > > > > At 07:35 +0100 18/7/20, Monica Hall wrote: > >Dear David > >Thank you for the photo. It does make it much clearer what the > >player is doing. I tried to take a photo of myself with my guitar - > >but it didn't work as it is a different shape and the pegs go > >through the back of the head. > >I think Watteau must have been more interested in reproducing the > >striking posture of the player rather than the instrument. This may > >often be the case with paintings which aren't always a reliable > >source of information. > >Best wishes > >Monica > > > > > > > >> On 17 July 2020 at 19:20 David Van Edwards <da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Dear Monica, > >> > >> There are two separate issues here, the lute and pegbox itself are > >> rather odd and dubious and I suspect Watteau didn't really care. > >> > >> The position of the hand is a separate matter and it seems entirely > >> possible to me. To demonstrate, I've just taken a photo posed in the > >> same way as much as possible in the short time you have with a self > >> timer! > >> > > > http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/Watteaupose.htm > >> > >> It was extra awkward because the half-completed student lute had no > >> pegs so I've held one with thumb and first finger. Had there been a > >> peg it would have been possible to turn it! > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> > >> David > >> > >> > >> At 17:32 +0100 17/7/20, Monica Hall wrote: > >> >I still don't get it! > >> > > >> >Neither picture seems to make sense to me even when put side to > >> >side. In the Lute player the back view of the instrument is shown > >> >but the peg box is skewed to the front. The peg box is curved and > >> >the pegs inserted laterally. > >> > > >> >In the Theorbo player the back view of the instrument is shown and > >> >the lower peg box is in line with the neck but the upper peg box is > >> >skewed to the front. > >> > > >> >With your left arm stretched out it is almost impossible to get your > >> >hand into the position shown. And where is his right arm. Normally > >> >you would be plucking the string to hear if it were in tune. > >> >Monica > >> > > >> >> On 17 July 2020 at 12:12 David Van Edwards > >><da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dear Monica, > >> >> > >> >> There's another related Watteau painting in the Wallace collection > >> >> (Pour nous prouver que cette belle) showing the same hand in much > >> >> more detail. Different instrument so the pegbox is a bit narrower and > >> >> that maybe makes the hand more possible. But the brushwork here shows > >> >> that Watteau clearly enjoyed the extreme muscularity and effort of > >> >> the fingers which is such a contrast to the languid feeling of the > >> >> rest of the painting. These fingers are in many ways the focal point > >> >> of the painting and the difficulty is the message. > >> >> > >> >> I think the other commenters are right, it is the two middle fingers > >> >> holding up the pegbox while the first finger and thumb turn the peg. > >> >> The little finger meanwhile is curled up with the effort. > >> >> > >> >> You can see it here thanks to the ArtUK collection. > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > >https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/pour-nous-prouver-que-cette-belle-209396/view_as/grid/search/keyword:pour-nous-prouver-que-cette-belle/page/1# > >> >> > >> >> Best wishes, > >> >> > >> >> David > >> >> > >> >> At 10:50 +0100 17/7/20, Monica Hall wrote: > >> >> >"Les charmes de la vie" is a well-known painting by Watteau in the > >> >> >Wallace Collection. You just need to put in the title "Les charmes > >> >> >de la vie" to bring up several examples of it. > >> >> > > >> >> >However, what puzzles me is the odd position of his left arm and > >> >> >hand which seem to me to be anatomically impossible. It looks as if > > > >> >his fingers are stopping the back of the neck. Even if he was tuning > >> >> >it it couldn't be like that. What do the rest of you think. Am I > >> >> >missing somthing crucial? > >> >> > > >> >> >As ever > >> >> > > >> >> >Monica > >> >> >-- > >> >> > > >> >> >To get on or off this list see list information at > >> >> >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> The Smokehouse, > >> >> 6 Whitwell Road, > >> >> Norwich, NR1 4HB > >> >> England. > >> >> > >> >> Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > >> > > Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> The Smokehouse, > >> 6 Whitwell Road, > >> Norwich, NR1 4HB > >> England. > >> > >> Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > >> Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk > >> > >> > > > -- > The Smokehouse, > 6 Whitwell Road, > Norwich, NR1 4HB > England. > > Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 > Website: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk > >
