Nice post, Max. Donna > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr. > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:29 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? > > > Hello; Just speaking for myself the hardest adjustment i had to make > when moving to a mac was getting used to the way you have to edit > text. Now, that I understand it, it is second nature; but it was a > real headache in the beginning. Another one that was a tough one to > get my mind around was not having multiple windows in my browser. I > finallly found out that you can have multiple finder and safari > windows you just cycle through them differently. It sounds like apple > was doing its best to listen and adapt to what people were saying were > short comings in voiceover. To me this is a good thing. Maybe they > didn't get this one issue right, but I believe they continually make > an honest effort to give us the most accessible easiest to use product > out there. I'm still planning to wait on snow lepard. You know why? > Its because of all the times I upgraded in windows and found things > were worse instead of better. Its for all the times I kept using the > previous version of software out of fear that the next one wouldn't > work with jaws. So, thanks to apple for voiceover and their > continuing commitment to universal access. You all take care, Max > On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: > > > > > think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to > > accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way it is > > meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are here > > now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need their > > screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. as I > > stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) > > > > On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > > > >> > >> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of people > >> who > >> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I believe > >> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or > some > >> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people > >> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for > those > >> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this point > >> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I > see > >> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, > whatever > >> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there are > >> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It is > >> an > >> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth > >> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have stated > >> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is not a > >> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously didn't > >> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an > >> option. > >> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. > >>> > >>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there > are > >>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, > but > >>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the > >>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to a > >>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and > >>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. > >>> > >>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context > >>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way shorter > >>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to > >>> apply > >>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that they're > >>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going to > >>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers who > >>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled email > >>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their > >>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the difference > >>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions > >>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most > >>> cases. > >>> > >>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get this > >>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason the > >>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in any > >>> way > >>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that > >>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping > >>> oppinion > >>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use > >>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my fair > >>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a > >>> while. > >>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as cheating. I > >>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their > >>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, > >>> human's > >>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of > habit > >>> even if they're bad ones. > >>> > >>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a > >>> feature > >>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not > >>> sure > >>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the > >>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac user, > >>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who > >>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that works > >>> for > >>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they > >>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing > they > >>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. > >>> > >>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side of > >>> the pond... > >>> Scott > >>> > >>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and > you > >>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the only > >>>> plus > >>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and really > >>>> find > >>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to ease > >>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with > you, > >>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone > >>>> make > >>>> the transition. > >>>> > >>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly > >>>>> remind me > >>>>> of windows are as follows. > >>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. > >>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, especially > >>>>> when > >>>>> it already says edit text. > >>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter > >>>>> intuitive > >>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to sighties. > >>>>> > >>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they > are > >>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help > progression > >>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so > >>>>> glad I > >>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. > >>>>> > >>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful to > >>>>> apple > >>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: > 08/29/09 17:51:00
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