Absolutely - all opinions are welcome smile ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Howarth" <marie.jane2...@gmail.com> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:45 AM Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm?
> > think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to > accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way it is > meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are here > now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need their > screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. as I > stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) > > On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> >> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of people who >> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I believe >> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or some >> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people >> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for those >> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this point >> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I see >> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, whatever >> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there are >> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It is an >> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth >> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have stated >> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is not a >> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously didn't >> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an >> option. >> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: >> >>> >>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. >>> >>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there are >>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, but >>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the >>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to a >>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and >>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. >>> >>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context >>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way shorter >>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to >>> apply >>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that they're >>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going to >>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers who >>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled email >>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their >>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the difference >>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions >>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most >>> cases. >>> >>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get this >>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason the >>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in any >>> way >>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that >>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping oppinion >>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use >>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my fair >>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a while. >>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as cheating. I >>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their >>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, >>> human's >>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of habit >>> even if they're bad ones. >>> >>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a feature >>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not sure >>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the >>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac user, >>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who >>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that works >>> for >>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they >>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing they >>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. >>> >>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side of >>> the pond... >>> Scott >>> >>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and you >>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the only >>>> plus >>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and really >>>> find >>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to ease >>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with you, >>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone make >>>> the transition. >>>> >>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly >>>>> remind me >>>>> of windows are as follows. >>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. >>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, especially >>>>> when >>>>> it already says edit text. >>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter intuitive >>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to sighties. >>>>> >>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they are >>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help progression >>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so >>>>> glad I >>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. >>>>> >>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful to >>>>> apple >>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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