Not to mention how much money Verizon and AT&T make from the government. Both for their illegal tapping programs and just in general, the dollar amounts are high and they have immunity and extra protections.
> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:02 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Yes, and you may have notice that while FaceBook and Google have been > cheering on Apple, the other phone manufacturers have be conspicuously > silent. I think they are happy letting Apple be the lightning rod on this one. > > CB > > On 2/22/16 8:38 AM, Scott Granados wrote: >> Agreed, I’m surprised there is no mention of this on any of the other >> platform lists. Google is as vulnerable to this as Apple if the government >> sets it’s mind to it. >> >> What about all the plants as well? Juniper Networks and Cisco have both >> recently suffered from having NSA plants inject back doors in to their >> source code for cracking VPN tunnels. >> >> >>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:39 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>> The focus on "one device" is a diversion. For a back door to be effective >>> the FBI needs to be sure that every phone has the compromised security >>> system because they can't know ahead of time which phone they might need to >>> get unlocked. That opens the door for any interested party with legitimate >>> or illegitimate influence to get the key from Apple. Sooner or later that >>> key will slip out into the wild or someone will fabricate their own. So the >>> emphasis about this being just for this one case is really not tenable. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> On 2/20/16 4:56 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote: >>>> It’s a pipe dream. Without going into crazy technical detail you’re >>>> talking about either bypassing or giving up their cryptographic private >>>> key, the moment you do that it’s all over, for 1 device or for a million >>>> devices. Unlike, say, a firewall where you can open a port to 1 specific >>>> device based on MAC address, let it get it’s information then close it off >>>> again. This is a different concept. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> hmmm. good points. >>>>> now, I am not a crypto specialist. I am a basic IT/security tech. my >>>>> thing is firewalls, intrusion detection and disinfection >>>>> >>>>> There has to be a way where apple doesn't have to give up security and >>>>> still allow the FBI access to that one device (without compromising all >>>>> others). Is this possible or am I smoking a real pipe dream here? >>>>> >>>>> -eric >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified >>>>>> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards >>>>>> to cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up >>>>>> to brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of >>>>>> experience. In this letter to us, the customers Tim Cook does a decent >>>>>> job of outlining the issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone >>>>>> apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, >>>>>> what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing >>>>>> as a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, >>>>>> and one that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody >>>>>> has access to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m >>>>>> contracted out to build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for >>>>>> example, once a password has been created for a user I do not, and >>>>>> cannot ever gain access to that users account. >>>>>> >>>>>> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating >>>>>> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to >>>>>> both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in >>>>>> an analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your >>>>>> home is in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI >>>>>> comes along and asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in >>>>>> broad daylight. When you say it lowers the security of your home the >>>>>> answer is “Well it’s ok, thieves in the area don’t know which window you >>>>>> smashed out.” >>>>>> >>>>>> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their >>>>>> accessibility, I love their products but knowing about cyber security I >>>>>> can guarantee you right now that if they build this backdoor I will >>>>>> immediately stop using apple products. >>>>>> >>>>>> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system >>>>>> that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for >>>>>> you? What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all >>>>>> your passwords for things like your bank account. >>>>>> >>>>>> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m >>>>>> here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your >>>>>> security it’s done and the product will never be as secure again. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tyler K. Thompson >>>>>> >>>>>> -Software Engineer >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ok, >>>>>>> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. >>>>>>> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and >>>>>>> that were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its >>>>>>> problem solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a >>>>>>> passcode) used, then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. >>>>>>> Note: I did not say impossible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. >>>>>>> they aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law >>>>>>> enforcement. all they need to do is provide a technician who knows the >>>>>>> method (and has the program). since that program will not be turned >>>>>>> over to the FBI, there is essentially no problem. Apple would retain >>>>>>> custody of the program and the method and law enforcement would have to >>>>>>> follow the law (file a warrant, etc.). At this point, there would be no >>>>>>> back door to exploit To further secure it, I would props that the >>>>>>> program be placed on a specialized (and isolated) device. THis device >>>>>>> cannot be plugged into any network and would also require the use of a >>>>>>> password (only known to apple) to work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> does this sound like a decent proposal? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not just terrorist that this will effect it's all IOS device >>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A back door access to one device is a back door to all devices of that >>>>>>>> type. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Iargree >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of George Cham >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 9:21 PM >>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable >>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's a good point about the fingerprint. But my question is this >>>>>>>> doesn't make apple an accessory to terrorism if they don't cooperate >>>>>>>> with the FBI? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> George, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 19 Feb 2016, at 6:53 PM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apart from that point where if your phone battery dies and you need to >>>>>>>>> use the pin code to open it for the first time >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or did they even have finguerprints setup on the devices. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 8:11 AM >>>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable >>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Karen, you raise a really really good question. Why don’t they just >>>>>>>>> use the fingerprint of the phone owner. He’s dead anyway so you >>>>>>>>> don’t have to worry about his specific rights, he’s dead.:) Couldn’t >>>>>>>>> they lift a print or even a finger and just use that? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now I really smell a rat since they had the body and had a means in. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not only is Apple 100% correct here, the FBI is not using other >>>>>>>>>> doors, such as the fingerprints of those involved. >>>>>>>>>> A master key like the one the FBI desires seeing created is simply >>>>>>>>>> unwise to develop. Hackers have anoth leeway, and no one should >>>>>>>>>> have their privacy compromised in this fashion. >>>>>>>>>> After all consider how often the government has themselves been >>>>>>>>>> hacked, not only could this key be abused by the government, it could >>>>>>>>>> be stolen by others. Just my take, Karen >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2016, Scott Granados wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Wonder if anyone else is following Tim Cook’s position against >>>>>>>>>>> being forced to cripple the security on iPhones. Anyone have any >>>>>>>>>>> comments? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please >>>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on >>>>>>>>>>> the list itself. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - 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