Sounds like a private beta to me which is comparing apples and oranges. The developers involved in the private cycle are very much restricted but once public is added it’s a whole new ballgame.
And thanks for doing the testing you do, the deaf blind community is probably pretty under represented. That’s great you stepped up along with the others. > On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:35 PM, maurice.mines <maurice.mi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Good evening, I too have been a beta tester for the last three summers. I > almost didn’t do it this summer because for the first time I am actually > really very much deaf blind these days. But the good far outweighed any of my > concerns. And like the person when responding to I don’t discuss what’s in > prerelease software. The only time I will do it is when it can be done very > discreetly and handled in a professional manner i.e. with a developer of a > major piece of adaptive software. In other words what I’m getting at here is > that if I have to discuss something that can be harmful to us as blind people > with a developer, with the understanding that the discussion doesn’t leave > us, that is the only instance when I break a nondisclosure agreement. Because > many moons ago I used to administrate over a beta test program, I don’t know > how me on this list remember the old outspoken software title, remember that > it was for the very old McIntosh computers, and up until Windows 95 was also > run on those computers as well. I was asked in addition to doing tech support > stuff at one time to administrate over a beta test program, and the only > folks I laden were engineers, and other professionals long with talking over > with my boss at the time when the availing folks we approved were > professional strictly because of some of what we are discussing on the list. > And the concerns about what some major disability related pod casters choose > to do, most of them if they’re smart clear their podcasts with the vendors in > question before they release podcasts that share proprietary information. Or > at least, I hope they do that would just be good common sense to avoid a > potential lawsuit. However I certainly agree with Ray, it is certainly up to > the company that has imposed the nondisclosure agreement on a beta tester to > enforce it. The problem here is the court of public opinion. The media > sometimes put stories out that big stent looked like society is nailing a > disabled person, without sharing the full story. And so that can sometimes > make a company look bad, when it was the customers fault that something > happened. So I think some of apples appearance of not enforcing their > nondisclosure agreement, is simply because you don’t want bad press. It also > depends on the severity of the breach of confidentiality if it’s a minor > feature that leaks, then it’s probably no big deal. But if it’s a large > feature a.k.a. most of the company’s core business necessity, they are > definitely going to come down on some money who does that because not all > companies are the size of Apple, and/or Microsoft used for example here, > particularly in the adaptive technology world, most companies are very small. > So breaking a nondisclosure agreement most companies in our field can even > mean to accompany going out of business. I guess the moral of the very > lengthy story is this, think before you start spilling the beans. Who are you > really benefiting, and are you hurting the disability comunity more than > helping, because companies like Apple who make public betas available might > think twice about letting those of us in the adaptive technology field, and > the disability community in general beta test something if they feel that > they’re being taken advantage of it takes years to get goodwill from large > corporations like Apple and Microsoft. Let’s not go out and destroy that > goodwill because that’s how we get whatever we want to get done on our > computers goodwill and the law a.k.a. let’s keep the bridge there not blow > the bridge up so that already have is the bottom of whatever body of water > that which was once over. The end > > Sincerely Maurice mines. > note that the text of my comments have been dictated to the computer by using > Dragon version 6 for Mac OS. If there in the text that I’ve dictated to the > computer, those errors may be caused by problems with the process of > dictating the text to the computer, or the software configuration itself. If > there’s something you didn’t understand that I’ve written,. Please ask me > what my original intent was? I will do my very best to clear up any > misunderstandings. >> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net >> <mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net>> wrote: >> >> I may have only tested the public betas, but, I’m totally going to stand for >> Chris and the other Devs here who were always one step ahead of me. IF not >> for their pioneering work on all this. what we have now might: and indeed >> would be, much much more seriously flawed. I think we who tested the public >> betas have something to say to this also, for you see, I was one of them and >> continue to be. Now, I want to say something else that I feel is in >> connection with all this. Some say we who test the public betas can in fact >> discuss what we find in public before the final release. You could not be >> more in error!!! Obviously, you don’t know what you are talking about. >> Have you bothered to read the terms of agreement that all beta testers, (dev >> and public alike) must agree to? No? Well, permit me to summarize them for >> you. We cannot say a thing about what we are finding. We’re strictly >> forbidden to show you non testers in any way what it is we are working on. >> If you think you have so much to say, you either pay the developer fee or >> test the public beta. Until then, shut up!!!!! I’m coming out here in such >> strong defense of dev and public beta testers because I have gone through >> just about an entire summer of putting up with idiotic fools whoo have NO >> respect for non disclosure agreements and the seriousness with which such >> things MUST be taken. True, not everyone on this list is like that: in >> fact, I suspect that most on this particular list understand my point of >> view on this matter. But on VORail, (yes I am being specific about the >> place where most of this stupidity lives) it seemed to reign supreme. I’m >> sure I speak for Chris and the other devs and for the other public beta >> testers here when I say that when we say we cannot discuss something, you’d >> damn well better take us seriously because we damn well take Apple’s non >> disclosure agreements very very seriously. If stupid sighted people on >> podcasts can’t be bother to take such things seriously and go blabbing >> about what they find, that’s their problem. Also, frankly, it’s not much >> help to us if Apple doesn’t enforce their own non disclosure agreements. >> Well, let the rest blab if they want to: I, for my part, will NOT. >> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind >> built-in >> >> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray >> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!!!!! >> >>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Excuse me, Cheree. that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention >>> downright insulting to us devs, me being one of them. Let me tell you >>> something. We devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this. I did >>> so in iOS 9, and I even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle. >>> Trust me. I was on the 10 beta from June 30th, when it was announced at >>> WWDC until now. I've ever since had at least one of my devices on 10. >>> >>> I've reported bug after bug after bug to them. I've worked countless hours >>> to the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no >>> sollution was ever made. So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK? >>> We've done our damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, >>> and iOS as wonderful as possible. The thing is, once we make the bug >>> reports through the bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much >>> of a say past that point. If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've >>> done our parts by reporting it. >>> >>> Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was >>> released buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh. >>> I'm not lettin' you have this. I'm sorry. Us devs deserve more credit, >>> and respect! We really, really really did try! >>> >>> Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 >>> cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well? This is just >>> wrong! >>> --- >>> Christopher Gilland >>> JAWS Certified, 2016. >>> Training Instructor. >>> >>> i...@gillandmarketing.com <mailto:i...@gillandmarketing.com> >>> Phone: (704) 256-8010. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Cheree Heppe <mailto:che...@dogsc4me.com> >>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes >>>> >>>> You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves >>>> into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks >>>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail. >>>>> >>>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the >>>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread >>>>> to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, >>>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. >>>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. >>>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all >>>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between >>>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, >>>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger >>>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen. >>>>> >>>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must >>>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical >>>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and >>>>> all the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now >>>>> that I have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me >>>>> a few hours of frustration to become used to this new system. >>>>> >>>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for >>>>> iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen >>>>> and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent. >>>>> >>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no >>>>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I >>>>>> have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of >>>>>> messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the >>>>>> first message in the thread and then have to navigate between messages >>>>>> using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 >>>>>> finger flicking from message to message gone in ios10? >>>>>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there >>>>>> some settings that need tweaking? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - 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