Angle gestures are significantly easier for anyone who, at one time in the past, had enough vision to write print / handwriting, no matter the level of vision loss now. We did some (not rigorous) experimentation with a few people from both vision and never had vision backgrounds, and found that those who had vision were able to master the angle gestures.
Android's very open configurability is fabulous. almost all gestures can be assigned to different commands. However, until they open up for multiple finger gestures, or change from right-angle gestures to arcs, or in some other way adjust the gesture input such that totally congenitally blind people are able to perform them consistently without training, I cannot use the devices as a power user, or recommend the device to power users who fit the above limitations. Note: if and when Google makes the necessary adjustments to TalkBack, I will start using those devices much more regularly. Kind regards, David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +61 488 988 936 Sent from my iPhone > On 17/12/2016, at 02:58, Erik Burggraaf <e...@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote: > > Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe there is a little bit of > misinformation here. > > It is possible to use granularities without using the L-shaped gestures. For > example, I have a single flick down set to swipe to next granularity, and a > single flick up set to swipe to previous granularity. I can go through words > characters lines paragraphs, and even the HTML elements that are available in > the granularity menu. This is not quite as robust as the iOS router, but I > believe that it is easier in the short term that learning to use the router. > While I have no problem using the router myself, many of my customers did at > least at first. Most of them picked it up eventually, but it definitely took > practice and effort, just as the L-shaped gestures do. After much practice, I > have no problem with the L shape gestures anymore either, and use them on a > regular basis. > > Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is something that should be handled by > Developers. New paradigm philosophy requires that developers insert Tags and > ID's for everything. It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to assign labels, > however, talk back can label graphics. I'm not sure if you can do this on > iOS, but on Android you can backup your graphics files, and you can share > your graphicsfiles. Inclusive android.com has a feature that allows users to > share their Graphics label files. Once a plethora of graphic files become > available for download, it should take a lot of the pressure off of > developers of popular applications to go through and fix that which was > actually broken. It should also allow users to get up and running quicker out > of the box. > > I still prefer iOS for browsing the internet, and reading on my Braille > display. I definitely use Android far more often though. I use it for typing > and word processing, checking my email, managing web host and FTP servers, > numerous forms of entertainment, transportation and mobility, and all types > of communication. All of the most popular Crossover apps, such as Microsoft > Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp Messenger, and so on are just as > accessible and work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I am a regular > user and admirer of both platforms comma and I would hate to see someone > directed away from a device they think they might like, just because there's > information out there saying the device isn't fully accessible when it > actually is. > > Best, > > Erik > > Sent with AquaMail for Android > http://www.aqua-mail.com > > >> On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Yes, Android development is interesting. >> >> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. >> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also >> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons. >> >> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the >> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author >> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus >> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more >> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality. >> >> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so >> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced >> functionality. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, >>> the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change. >>> >>> Then again though, why change something that works? Performance >>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good. I >>> hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better? >>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting >>> things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty >>> specialized for we engineering and systems folks. Who has a better option >>> right now? For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device >>> and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a >>> jump ahead but they still aren’t there. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS >>>> >>>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine >>>> both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices. >>>> >>>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now, >>>> >>>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc, >>>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal iChat etc. >>>> >>>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms, >>>> >>>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe >>>> apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing >>>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no >>>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller >>>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM >>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over? >>>> >>>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year. They >>>> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the >>>> keyboard that ships with it. Personally, nothing exciting has changed >>>> since mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates >>>> are free, based on the lack of changes we have seen. From what the >>>> reviews and reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should >>>> have waited on those too. >>>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Just a question for you all. >>>>> >>>>> Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been >>>>> wondering is development over for the Mac OS? For the last six years >>>>> since I've used the Mac, only small things have changed. I as you most >>>>> know, use a Mac and Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable >>>>> machine. Apple bring out new lap tops but they don't bring out a new >>>>> desk top so am wondering if Apple are finished with the computer side of >>>>> their OS. They have also got rid of their mac safe wire and their >>>>> airport extremes. I am very sad that Apple should want to do this. In >>>>> fact access technology has been standing still since the talking I phone >>>>> came out. I wonder where access technology is going. I want something >>>>> new to excite me as I use to get excited over new technology but these >>>>> days it's the same old, same old. I don't think an new I phone will grip >>>>> a blind person any more so I'm wondering what is next to make us so crazy. >>>>> >>>>> Kawal. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
