You don't know and it shouldn't really matter, As you move away it should change from the weaker to the stronger without interruption
Good sckeme setting them both the same. I also have mac address filtering also enabled but remember all these security features can be cracked if someone really wants to. -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Berwick Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2017 2:07 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: VPN questions This thread is very fascinating and mostly over my head, but I have done as you suggested and changed the name of my 5GHZ band to be the same as my 2.4GHZ. Now, if you don’t mind answering what may be a dumb question, how do I now know whether I’m connecting to the 5 or the 2.4 band? Is there a way to prefer one over the other? Will it automatically try the 5GHZ first or just default to the stronger/clear band/channel? Thx, Jeff > On Apr 11, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote: > > OK a few things that are incorrect here but it might just be a > difference in terminology. So Incorrect may be a bit strong. It’s > probably the guy on this side of the keyboard.:) > > PSK or pre shared key s plenty secure assuming you have a good key. Your > only option is to use a radius server and do WPA2 enterprise but then you’re > still using passwords so same limitation has to be a good password. > I’m absolutely certain your neighbor broke in to your network using > WiFi protected setup or WPS which is a different animal as you know. Why > someone would use a numeric pin over a long pass phrase baffles me because > it’s far easier to guess. If you know the valid characters are in the range > 0 to 9 instead of containing the whole alphabet, all the punctuation and so > forth you can see how much this improves your odds of cracking. I’ve broken > networks in under 30 seconds using this method assuming of course how quickly > you guess the pin. Turn that feature off and use the AES encryption and I’m > effectively locked out assuming I can’t guess your pass phrase. > > WPA verses WPA2. Here’s the difference, WPA uses TKIP cryptography. This is > ok but has been found not to be as robust as it should. > > WPA2 uses AES encryption. AES is a European standard that’s very effective > and uses all sorts of cool grouping and modulus tricks to Harden the > connection. This is the way to go. It performs best, is the hardest to crack > and uses the most bits in key and group generation. > > > Next, let’s talk channels. > > (Eric, I’m being deliberately over detailed so folks not as skilled as > your self can follow along, if I’m telling you stuff you know please > be patient) > > There are three primary bands used for WiFi, they vary a little country to > country but not significantly. The bands are 2.4 ghz, and two segments of > the 5.0 ghz band. There’s some 5.8 ghz out there but this is quite new and > yes there’s stuff up over 20 ghz but we’ll leave AD networking out of this > for now to not over complicate. > On the 2.4 ghz band in most countries there are 11 channels, in some > there are 13 but let’s go with 11 for this discussion. The channels overlap > so you have to be very careful what to pick. Channels need at least 5 for > separation so for example. Channels 1 and 6 do not overlap, channels 1 and 3 > do. So if you have a radio on 1 and one on 3 you’ll have collisions between > the spectrum. The channels usually used for this reason are 1, 6 and 11. > This means if you’re on channel 9 you’re colliding with channels 6 and 11. > If we look at the signal we see that the bandwidth is 40 mhz under normal > operation. Now if we have 20/40 mhz coexistence mode enabled which is > usually the default this number will shrink to 20 MHz if another signal is > received adjacent to your channel. So, pick an empty channel but be mindful > of what you’re overlapping with. Also, this band is the most congested. > You’re contending with everything from garage door openers to microwave ovens > with bad seals. Cordless phones live up here and all sorts of baby monitors > and things. > > The 5 GHz band is your best option if you have it available. Most modern > routers do as do most interface cards. This band is broken in to sections, > you have the lower band at channels 36, 40, 44 and 48 and then the upper band > at channels 149, 153, 157 and 161. You also have the DFS band which includes > 132 and several others. DFS is also used by military and other RADAR so you > may select a DFS channel but if interference is picked up you’ll select a new > one. Not all gear supports DFS and likely different countries handle this > differently. Also, the first 20 MHz of the 5 ghz unlicensed frequency is > dedicated to US cellular operators for LTE unlicensed, other countries will > vary. > On 5 GHZ you have 80 MHz of bandwidth so your effective throughput is > faster. Also, with the way the channels are deployed you have more spectrum > so you’re not dealing with the overlapping problem. You can be on channel > 149 and have a radio on 153 and you’ll be ok in this instance. > > So bottom lining it, if you can, use 5 GHz. It carries differently than 2.4 > and interacts more with things like walls and bricks but if you’re in a good > setting the lack of congestion and more spectrum work in your favor. > > So in my example, the optimal setup is as follows. > > Set WPA2 for security, reduce the key interval from 3600 to 900 seconds, have > a nice healthy long key, disable WPS, use the same SSID on 2.4 and 5 GHZ so > you can take advantage of band steering and pick your low band channels > wisely. > > The automatic selection on routers is better on some than others. Some > reselect through out the day, others pick once and stick with a channel and > still others just randomly select. On the low band most routers default to > channel 6 so avoid 6 if possible or use it in Eric’s case where you’ve > audited the spectrum and know it’s available manually. > > > >> On Apr 11, 2017, at 1:40 AM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >> >> well, >> there are other access points around the neighborhood, although none of them >> are within close range (signal strengths less than 30%) and mine is only a >> single device in the house. >> >> Also, most ordinary users are appliance users, which means their knowledge >> will not be sufficient enough to determine this. The one who was sharing via >> my connection was more than just an appliance user, so making the SSID >> invisible to him wouldn't work. >> >> btw, I did a channel audit here and the channel I am using is pretty clear >> all around me. most folks seem to default to either 1 or 9. I am using 6 >> right now. I will break out the other machine and do another audit this next >> month and see if I need to change things here. >> >> btw, I was using WPA-PSK when my network was compromised. I have since >> switched to WPA2-TKIP-AES, turned off the PIN and changed the passphrase to >> something a lot more complex. As far as I am concerned, anything with a -PSK >> is just too easy to crack (I know, Reaver can crack it in under 10 minutes). >> >> anyway, I might decide to reinitialize WPS and keep the network congestion >> around here to a minimum. >> >> -eric >> >> On Apr 9, 2017, at 8:05 PM, Scott Granados wrote: >> >>> That’s not my point though. My point is even with out putting in your >>> particulars I can still pull that information out of the air with out >>> having to enter anything. The SSID is also used for avoiding interference. >>> The networks are really indicated with their MAC addresses so your access >>> point broadcasts it’s MAC address as part of the packet. That’s present no >>> matter what. >>> >>> I guess what I’m saying is not broadcasting the SSID has no security value >>> at all and has the effect of causing additional congestion. Unless of >>> course you’re out in a rural area with very few networks. >>> >>> >>> Over all, turn of that WPS if it’s enabled, the Mac filtering is a good >>> policy but turn that SSID back on so you and your neighbor’s routers play >>> nice. With the changes I suggest and if you’re using WPA2PSK with a good >>> key you’ll be very secure. >>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 10:56 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> well, when I turned off SSID broadcast, it was a little harder to get new >>>> devices to connect. basically, it takes inputting the SSID and other >>>> particulars manually. once connected, there is no trouble. >>>> >>>> -eric >>>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 3:54 PM, E.T. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting discussion. Much food for thought. I will study the VPN site >>>>> you suggested. >>>>> >>>>> One thing you mentioned to Jonathan was that you disabled SSID in your >>>>> router. How does that affect your Wifi network. Can your devices still >>>>> see the network? I certainly would not mind hiding from the neighbors. >>>>> >>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the >>>>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn >>>>> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan >>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>> >>>>> On 4/9/2017 1:35 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: >>>>>> not a problem. there are other reasons to use a VPN. However, 2 >>>>>> things I do when using google: >>>>>> 1. I am not signed in >>>>>> 2. I always use a VPN when searching. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, of late, I have been having some trust issues with my current ISP. >>>>>> It seems that they sent me a notice of copyright infringement >>>>>> about a shared file. only problem, I was not sharing anything. >>>>>> So, I had to do a full blown security audit of my machines and >>>>>> network. I did, eventually, found where the issue was (the >>>>>> Lingsys router I have here had a security vulnerability that >>>>>> couldn't be easily closed. As a result, one of my neighbors was >>>>>> using it to share files. so, even though I had the thing password >>>>>> protected, it was still using a number of items that made >>>>>> breaking the password trivially easy with the right software. I >>>>>> finally managed to get a handle on the situation by turning off >>>>>> the PIN the device had, turning off SSID broadcast and engaging >>>>>> MAC filtering. I still can't completely trust the device, so I use a VPN >>>>>> pretty much all the time now. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am looking to upgrade the hardware though. A kit from >>>>>> Routerboard that I can install an image of OpenBSD on would make >>>>>> things a lot better here. THere are optional add-ons like WiFi >>>>>> B/G/A/N, a bridged set of LAN ports, an all weather housing, etc. >>>>>> Once that is done and installed, I can install the VPN package >>>>>> for OpenBSD on there, set it up to handle that and not worry too >>>>>> much. Then, if I want to be ultra secure, I would continue to use a VPN >>>>>> tunnel from my machine, thus doubling the protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, as to why I would want to use a VPN for other than just security? >>>>>> It's simple. there are some programs hosted on the web that might >>>>>> be regionally restricted (like sports events). So, I would want >>>>>> to be able to listen legally and not be caught up in a blackout >>>>>> zone. Thus, VPN allows me to place my end point elsewhere (like >>>>>> NYC, Sanfransisco, Detroit, Dallas, or even a foreign country). A >>>>>> VPN also gets around what my ISP does when I am viewing something >>>>>> like Hulu or Netflix (they try to lower the QoS for video >>>>>> streaming on content that directly competes with their cable >>>>>> programming). With a VPN, they can't see the type of traffic, so >>>>>> they can't change its priority. They have yet to start doing so >>>>>> on encrypted tunnels. Besides, I am paying for a specific level >>>>>> of service and I hate it when the ISP decides that my traffic >>>>>> needs to be shaped. I don't have video here, so I expect full >>>>>> service. btw, I have already filed a number of complaints over >>>>>> this issue with both the FCC and the FTC. each time, my service gets >>>>>> maxed out for a few months and then they start the games again. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, I am paying for 50 megabit/second service here and when the >>>>>> VPN is active, I can still get 40 through. Thats not bad, all >>>>>> things considered. Since I started using the VPN a year ago, the >>>>>> bandwidth shaping games have pretty much stopped. However, >>>>>> lately, I have been catching RST packets being sent from 2 hops >>>>>> upstream from me. That causes the VPN to drop and I have to >>>>>> reconnect. looks like its time to complain again. >>>>>> >>>>>> anyway, thats a lot of how and why I use one. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it more secure? yes. >>>>>> is it absolutely secure? not a chance! A very determined hacker >>>>>> will still be able to break it, but its enormously more >>>>>> difficult. He'll just simply move on to an easier target. >>>>>> >>>>>> -eric >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Eric, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just want to correct one thing. The elimination of the ISP >>>>>>> can't collect traffic rule here in the US essentially does not >>>>>>> change anything. Congress can not actually shutdown entire rules >>>>>>> without Agency changes unless they are brand new rules. The >>>>>>> privacy rules were I believe supposed to go into effect in June, >>>>>>> and don't forget even if those rules had gone into effect Google >>>>>>> would still be collecting and selling your data. In fact, be >>>>>>> wary of any free or very inexpensive internet based service, >>>>>>> software does not just get created out of thin air, companies >>>>>>> pay good money for developers, and disk space costs something too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In fact one reason, congress did not like the new FCC rules was >>>>>>> that they only provided a that no equivalent protections of >>>>>>> privacy could be leveraged by the FCC over search engines, since >>>>>>> the FCC only regulates the pipes and the FTC would regulate other >>>>>>> internet services. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please forgive any specific inaccuracies in this post, I am >>>>>>> going off of materials I read in tidbits.com >>>>>>> <http://tidbits.com/> and severalpodcasts that I listened to over a >>>>>>> week ago. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jonathan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:eric.o...@icloud.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> well, >>>>>>>> depending on whether you use a free or paid service will make a >>>>>>>> difference in both service quality and setup. I use a paid >>>>>>>> service myself. It's $7 a month and is fairly reliable. I have >>>>>>>> tried some free services, but they are mostly hit and miss and >>>>>>>> are not always as secure. the service I use is located here: >>>>>>>> www.privateinternetaccess.com >>>>>>>> <http://www.privateinternetaccess.com/> >>>>>>>> and they have both client software or you can setup manually. >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, their cliente for the mac is not accessible, so >>>>>>>> I use a manual setup in the preferences pane. It works >>>>>>>> reasonably well. I have also done the manual setup in windows >>>>>>>> 7. This has allowed me to be able to have dropbox and a few >>>>>>>> other services when I am behind a firewall (like over at Voc >>>>>>>> rehab) THeir IT folks have gotten on my case more than once, >>>>>>>> until I pointed out to them that their own policy does not >>>>>>>> forbid the use of a vpn (it does, however, forbid the use of >>>>>>>> sharing services that are unprotected on their networks). I >>>>>>>> even had one of them try to break into my machine (at my >>>>>>>> request) and they found it well nigh impossible. I had the >>>>>>>> firewall on that win 7 box setup so that only traffic on the >>>>>>>> VPN was allowed in or out and everything else got dropped. That took a >>>>>>>> lot of heavy customization on my part to make it work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> so, if you want to run a VPN, which these days is pretty much >>>>>>>> going to be a must now that ISP's aren't required to keep your >>>>>>>> info private, it is highly recommended.. btw, a lot of the free >>>>>>>> vpn services are not all that bandwidth friendly. thats why I >>>>>>>> use the service I do. they can support up to 20 Mbits/sec. for >>>>>>>> what I do, thats a must have. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -eric >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:17 AM, E.T. wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The recent discussion about VPN got me interested but I was >>>>>>>>> not ready to look into it at the time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know the setup is done in Network prefs but where does one >>>>>>>>> get information on VPN servers etc.? Thanks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the >>>>>>>>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn >>>>>>>>> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan >>>>>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of >>>>>>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is >>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>>>>>>>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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