Apple's public beta NDA agreement at the following link...
<https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/legal>
From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
On 8/10/2017 1:27 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:
Hi Scott,
First off, I have not seen every post from Mark. I can assure you though that
if he has inadvertently posted anything that was under beta, it was an accident.
I’ve spoken with him and I trust him implicitly otherwise he would not be
moderating this list.
My understanding is that anything that has been posted here is not under NDA so
can be freely discussed.
If either I or Mark are wrong then please, by all means, point us to the post
in question. I am just asking that you do it off-list so we close this thread.
As far as your calling hypocrisy, though, and saying you can know my thoughts /
feelings with the limited knowledge you have of me, I will ask you simply, what
on earth have I done or said to you that basically makes you respond in essence
by either calling me a lier or a hypocrite every time I write something in
response to you, no matter how honest or matter-or-fact it is?
Scott, put simply, if you do not trust me or Mark, to the extent that you feel
that every time we respond to you, we are somehow not being honest then why the
hell are you still here? -And before you go shouting about this list being some
sort of power trip for me or Mark, if that were the case then one of us would
have simply removed you a long time ago.
We obviously haven’t. I was completely honest and straight-forward in my
response to you and I am honestly getting really tired of the same old vitriol
and pour-me stuff from your side.
there’s a lot that you say that I agree with and I think you have a whole lot
of knowledge and wisdom that you can and do share with this list.
So why the hell do you keep playing the whole downtrodden card?
You’re not downtrodden by any of the moderation. You say a lot of great things
here.
Just because I may not agree with every single thing you say does not mean I do
not respect you.
Whether or not you respect me on the other hand is your business.
I do wish you would stop the pettiness in your responses to me though. I
approached you with only honesty and plain english. -no name-calling or
sleights.
If you don’t respect me personally; fine, but please, if you honestly feel that
Mark and I in general, are being somehow underhanded with you, then please just
consider going elsewhere. I’m simply tired of your attitude no matter how nice
or respectful I attempt to be with you.
This is not a demand, this is simply a request because I have just simply had
enough of the BS.
So now, how much more honest would you like me to be?
Mark’s intentions have always been to be appropriate here on this list and he
holds himself very strongly to the same standards that he asks of anyone. I
have known him for many years and he exhibits tremendous character. So if he
has ever posted anything inappropriate you can be sure it was purely accidental.
-And this is exactly what I am talking about. You should really get to know
someone before you speak out of turn about someone.
I know we all say things at times that are off, but rather than doubling down
on this sort of thing, why not actually attempt to listen to someone rather
than assume what you think they feel?
Anyway, my apologies for such a long note. Thanks for reading.
Consider it if you like; delete it if you want. -Either way is fine with me at
this point.
I wish you the best Scott, and have a great day.
Cheers!
Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
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http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
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On Aug 10, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes it really is. When mark posts tens of articles on IOS 11 which is still in
beta yet complains when Anders asks a legitimate question that impacts our
community there is something clearly wrong. I don’t need to know you
personally to know your personal feelings, remember the phrase actions speak
louder than words. The hypocrisy in this case speaks volumes. It’s a total
case of do as I say not as I do.
When dozens of sites post articles daily, some of which Mark himself has quoted
on list about IOS betas and then pulls that crap with Anders it’s confusing at
best and bad form.
No, I do not know you personally and no I don’t know Mark personally
although I’ve talked to him a bit on list and so forth a bit more and have
followed his postings since the mobile speak days but this sort of thing gives
a bad impression. I’ll withdraw the personal feelings aspect of the criticism
if you feel it’s inaccurate but the general thrust still stands and also to be
accurate, this is the first time in probably a year I’ve heard you comment on
moderation so my point was mainly directed at Mark as you hadn’t joined the
thread.
I talked to Anders about this on the side. We were both under the
impression that the prohibition against public beta discussion had been lifted
a long time ago again do to Mark’s posting of these topics as well as my own,
Kliph’s and many others that went unchallenged for a year now. As I stated,
it’s your list so by extension sort of your house and I'll comply because we’re
guests in your domain but that doesn’t make it right, reasonable or justifiable.
I most definitely did not mean to personally attack you or Mark so any
thoughts around personal feelings or characteristics I’ll gladly withdraw but
as far as professionalism goes and the business of running the list Mark’s
stifling of Anders point was unacceptable but unacceptable is the way it will
be if you, mark and the other mods if they exist say so.
So, no discussion of betas unless the mods post articles on the betas because
it’s do as I say not as I do. Got it!
Very confusing and inconsistent
On Aug 10, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote:
Hey Scott,
Why are you saying this policy has to do with personal feelings when you have
not taken any time at all to get to know either me or Mark? You have no idea
what our personal feelings are on this.
-Okay, to be fair, perhaps you have gotten to know Mark unbeknownst to me, but
I know you and I don’t really know each other. :)
So please don’t stir the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot. This isn’t
about our personal feelings.
Anyway, for the record, I really couldn’t care less if we discuss beta material
or not, providing that public discussion is permitted in the user agreement
provided along with the software for the public beta program. -And, for what
it’s worth, I agree with you that as blind customers, we really need to make
our voices heard on issues that are important to us. I just don’t believe that
we should be breaking agreements to do it unless that is absolutely our *only*
available option.
Since I am not a member of the public beta program, if someone would like to
post the agreement here or point me to it, I’ll be happy to take a look.
If it says we can discuss it then we’ll simply change the policy. No biggie.
This is not some big personal thing, this is just a matter of a simple user
agreement. That’s all.
Cheers!
Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
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http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
Follow me on Twitter!
https://twitter.com/ModelCara
On Aug 10, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Why join a list when the rules are based in some arbitrary feeling that is
based on personal feelings rather than the law?
That’s just silly.
Counter to you, on any list I run feel free to discuss public anything as much
as you like. Public betas to public flogging, doesn’t matter to me. Nor does
it matter to Apple, their legal teams or any boiler plate.
It’s fine if Mark wants no discussion on a topic but don’t represent something
that’s not true, it’s a personal decision not one based on anything legal or
even best practices. Public anything is open for discussion. Developer betas
are a different matter and nobody crossed that line.
Sometimes it’ really hurts.
On Aug 10, 2017, at 9:33 AM, christopher hallsworth <challswor...@icloud.com>
wrote:
I am, and will still stand by mine and the group management thoughts on this.
Questions about either Developer or public betas should not be allowed, in my
opinion. Nough said. I do not allow such discussion on my own general
technology list, which, btw you are more than welcome to join. Please ask off
list so as to avoid clutter. Cheers!
On 10 Aug 2017, at 13:55, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:
Not even public beta questions. Why? Simple. It’s still beta and therefore,
falls under Apple’s non disclosure agreement.
Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
built-in
Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
On Aug 10, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
Hi mark!
I am sorry for that one.
Not even public beta questions?
If not then i am very sorry to ask this here.
/A
10 aug. 2017 kl. 05:57 skrev M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu>:
Hello Anders,
Beta software questions are not for this list.
If you have beta software questions, you may request that list members contact
you, off-list. Please be sure to include your direct email address in the body
of the post.
Thank you,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:41 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
Subject: Ios 11 beta and airplay and VoiceOver.
Hi!
For you who are testing the latest Ios 11 Public Beta i have a question for you.
If you’re using airplay, does VoiceOver follow the airplay audio so that it
comes through the airplay system instead of the Iphone speaker?
I have this problem and can’t even use the audio routing feature so that
voiceover will stay on the iphone.
I have reported this to apple.
I have another problem where in controlcenter i cant select any airport device
which was possible in ios 10.
/A
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