Right, but in this case, since I wasn't sure what was causing it, I wanted to make sure there were no corrupt preference files or anything else like that, when you're not sure what is causing the issue, start with a clean slate.
> On Dec 31, 2017, at 5:03 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: > > Good job, Mike. Perhaps it was a bug and was fixed in HS. There is an > easier way to set VO to defaults. Its on the VO Utility file menu. You can > also import and export VO settings there too. > > From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . > "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, > all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off > and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact > E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com > > On 12/31/2017 2:29 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: >> Ok, I found the answer, I don't know if this is a bug or a design change, >> but it's definitely different than in previous operating systems. Since no >> one else could reproduce the issue, I decided to start with defaults, so I >> opened my library folder, went to the preferences folder and deleted >> everything related to voiceover, then I turned voiceover off and back on. >> First thing I did was to open the voiceover utility and set the mouse to >> follow the voiceover cursor. Sure enough, it worked as expected. Then I >> started setting things the way I prefer to see if one of the settings that I >> was changing was causing the issue, and it was. In High Sierra, in the >> visuals category, if you uncheck the option to show the voiceover cursor, >> the mouse will not follow the voiceover cursor. Perhaps the logic now is, if >> the voiceover cursor is not showing, there's nothing for the mouse to >> follow, but it worked fine before high sierra. I always chose to hide the >> voiceover cursor since I couldn't see it anyway, but glad I found the >> answer, thanks to everyone who tried to reproduce it. >>> On Dec 31, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Mike Arrigo <n0...@charter.net> wrote: >>> >>> Very interesting, unless I use the command to move the mouse to the >>> voiceover cursor, it just says apple is under the mouse, I wonder if it's >>> related to another setting, although it was never an issue before high >>> sierra. >>> >>>> On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:22 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes I am running High Sierra. This did not act consistently in Finder but >>>> I tried it in other areas including the menu and menu extras and VO-f5 was >>>> spot on. >>>> >>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off >>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact >>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>> >>>> On 12/30/2017 12:20 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: >>>>> Are you using high sierra? If you have the mouse set to follow the >>>>> voiceover cursor and you navigate to something, then press vo+F5 to hear >>>>> the item under the mouse, does it indicate that the mouse is on the same >>>>> item as the voiceover cursor? For me, unless I specifically move the >>>>> mouse to the voiceover cursor, it always says that the apple menu is >>>>> under the mouse. >>>>>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 4:10 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mouse follows Voiceover seems to work fine here. >>>>>> >>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>>>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off >>>>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact >>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12/29/2017 1:45 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: >>>>>>> I find that high sierra works quite well. The only bug I know of, at >>>>>>> least relating to voice over is that even when you set the mouse to >>>>>>> follow the voiceover cursor, it does not work. >>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>> Simon, if High Sierra is so buggy, why are you silent on the beta >>>>>>>> group? Its so quiet there I have to think that Apple's developments are >>>>>>>> bug free. Not the case? People complain but don't want to get their >>>>>>>> hands dirty. >>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>>>>>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off >>>>>>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact >>>>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>>>>> On 12/29/2017 12:01 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>>>>>>> I've got no problem saying I think apple do a lot wrong, >>>>>>>>> Mac OS high sierra, >>>>>>>>> Still very buggy, >>>>>>>>> Removing the airport devices from their line, >>>>>>>>> The last three iPhones, wouldn't say their changing much. >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 29 December 2017 8:50 PM >>>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Apologizes After iPhone Battery Slowdown >>>>>>>>> Controversy | Time >>>>>>>>> Exactly they totally fail and people that think apple can do no wrong >>>>>>>>> will say other wise. This should be a toggle anyways. The only good >>>>>>>>> thing to come out of this is that they are now going to let you know >>>>>>>>> when your device is going to be effected by the battery and >>>>>>>>> replacements will only cost 30 bucks. This proves to me that battery >>>>>>>>> replacements could have been 30 bucks in the first place. I mean look >>>>>>>>> at all the money you spend on an IPhone. I mean you can also go >>>>>>>>> somewhere that is not apple and get the battery swapped for 50 bucks. >>>>>>>>> On 12/29/17, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> 'm to polite to say that on the list! >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T. >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 29 December 2017 3:27 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Apologizes After iPhone Battery Slowdown >>>>>>>>>> Controversy | Time >>>>>>>>>> Uh huh and what am I saying right now? >>>>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>>>>>>>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off >>>>>>>>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact >>>>>>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>>>>>>> On 12/28/2017 6:25 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I knew you would say that! >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T. >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 29 December 2017 3:20 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Apologizes After iPhone Battery Slowdown >>>>>>>>>>> Controversy | Time >>>>>>>>>>> Its called hindsight, Simon, something we all possess in >>>>>>>>>>> abundance. >>>>>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>>>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>>>>>>>>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind >>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan (1934-1996), Contact >>>>>>>>>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/28/2017 6:13 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again Mark this article is very interesting, >>>>>>>>>>>> And I must say what I think they should have done in the first >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 29 December 2017 1:21 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Apple Apologizes After iPhone Battery Slowdown Controversy >>>>>>>>>>>> | Time >>>>>>>>>>>> 'We Apologize.' Apple Offers $29 Fix After Uproar Over Slowing Down >>>>>>>>>>>> Old iPhones Apple has apologized to its customers for what it calls >>>>>>>>>>>> a "misunderstanding" >>>>>>>>>>>> around the revelation that the company has been slowing down older >>>>>>>>>>>> phones to accommodate for their aging batteries. >>>>>>>>>>>> "We know that some of you feel Apple has let you down. We >>>>>>>>>>>> apologize," the company said in a letter published on its website >>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday. >>>>>>>>>>>> The controversy over the slowing performance of aging iPhones >>>>>>>>>>>> exploded last week after a blog post highlighted the relationship >>>>>>>>>>>> between iPhone performance and battery condition. Apple later >>>>>>>>>>>> confirmed that it has been slowing older iPhones' performance to >>>>>>>>>>>> prevent sudden shutdowns as their aging batteries lost potency >>>>>>>>>>>> over time. >>>>>>>>>>>> In the letter posted Thursday, Apple said it considers batteries >>>>>>>>>>>> "consumable components" and that it has always wanted customers to >>>>>>>>>>>> be able to use iPhones "as long as possible." To that end, the >>>>>>>>>>>> company will cut the price of a battery replacement by $50 for >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone with an iPhone 6 or later starting in late January. That >>>>>>>>>>>> means instead of dropping $79 to get a new battery and make your >>>>>>>>>>>> old >>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone work like new again, you'll pay $29 through December 2018. >>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone users can also expect an iOS software update early in 2018 >>>>>>>>>>>> that will include new information about their battery's health, >>>>>>>>>>>> letting people see when the phone's battery may be affecting its >>>>>>>>>>>> performance. >>>>>>>>>>>> The iPhone battery revelations struck a chord because some iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> users believe the company intentionally slows its older phones to >>>>>>>>>>>> get customers to buy new ones. However, Apple says the practice is >>>>>>>>>>>> meant to prolong the life of older batteries. "This feature's only >>>>>>>>>>>> intent is to prevent unexpected shutdowns so that the iPhone can >>>>>>>>>>>> still be used," Apple says in a new support article. >>>>>>>>>>>> Still, Apple is now facing several lawsuits over the matter. The >>>>>>>>>>>> company also promised to keep working on how it manages performance >>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid shutdowns, and said it hopes to earn customers' trust >>>>>>>>>>>> again next year. >>>>>>>>>>>> Original Article at: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://time.com/5081679/apple-apologizes-iphone-slowdown-controversy >>>>>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>> attery >>>>>>>>>>>> -price/ >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please >>>>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on >>>>>>>>>>>> the list itself. >>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner >>>>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>>> list, >>>>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>> mark at: >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>>>>>>> Quinn >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+- you >>>>>>>>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>> mark at: >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>>>>>>> Quinn >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+- you >>>>>>>>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Lenron Brown >>>>>>>>> Cell: 985-271-2832 >>>>>>>>> Skype: ron.brown762 >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is >>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is >>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
