At 02:17 PM 7/25/2005, you wrote:
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Shawn Gordon wrote:
> At 01:36 PM 7/25/2005, you wrote:
>
> Shawn Gordon wrote:
>> At 11:12 AM 7/25/2005, you wrote:
>
>> Shawn Gordon wrote:
>>> Hi,
>
>>> Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is
>>> gone, and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of
>>> applications to the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we
>>> use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've been watching the discussion on that topic with
>>> interest - has anyone tried taking a Qtopia app and getting it to
>> run by
>>> just including the Qtopia libs required for it? Aside from that, a
>>> contact at Nokia would be really appreciate, I've seen some names
>> around
>>> but no email addresses. Feel free to reply privately if needed.
>> Thanks.
>
>> Do you mean rebuilding qtopia to use QT/x11, or bypassing X and using
>> QT/e or (*gasp*) qvfb on X?
>
>
>>> Qt/e has its own framebuffer and doesn't use X, which is part of the
>>> appeal for it on embedded devices, I think the footprint is about 3mb
>>> (Lorn, correct me if I'm wrong) - for my purposes I don't care
> about X,
>>> I'm just trying to figure out if we can kind of carry our own
>>> environment along and have it work and look reasonable within the
>>> existing framework, I'm sure someone will port Opie to the device at
>>> some point and try using our applications on it, and some of them
> might
>>> even work like that. Our applications are typically well partitioned
>>> between the presentation and application layer, so a port isn't
> terribly
>>> hard, but anything to make the process quicker is a good thing from
> our
>>> perspective.
>
> <disclaimer: this is my opinion, and I am not employed by nokia, movial,
> kernel concepts or any other company.>
>
>
>> Koen, seriously, have a tall cool drink of water - you are way off base
>> on what you are accusing me of doing. I've got no idea what Qt/e
>> propoganda you are referring to, my company has been happily making and
>> selling applications for the Sharp Zaurus since before it was officially
>> released, coming on 4 years now, with over 30 products. I'm not here
>> espousing it to be better or worse than anything else, we are very aware
>> of what it can and cannot do, but that is not at all the point of the
>> discussion that *I* am trying to have. You are being rude as hell with
>> your "This does that DEAL WITH IT" type comments, they are uncalled for
>> and out of line. Try reading what I actually wrote.
I sincerely apoligize for being rude. I just got pissed of by the fact
that QT/e got dragged into the discussion again. The opie project proves
that you can support X11 by changing a config option.
I've used several apps from you company, which were very nice apps. I
just found the qtopia env to limiting. Couple that with Lorn spreading
FUD on opie-devel (see the QT4 thread) and I get a bit paranoid.
I stopped paying attention to all the zaurus, opie, openzaurus discussions
years ago, so I have no idea what might be getting discussed. All I really
know is that supposedly the next major release of Qt/e is going to be based
on Qt4 but until there is a device using it, it doesn't matter to me. The
point you seem to be missing in everything I wrote is that I stated the
fact that our apps are Qtopia, I didn't say anything else about it or
rewriting the rom or making Qtopia run on the device. I just want my apps
to run in the current environment and if there is a way for me to do that
and leave them essentially unchanged as a first cut, then so much the
better for us to get software out by the release of the device. I could
care less about any of the holy wars about what everyone likes, we did our
technical review of toolkits years ago and made our decision and we've been
happy with it, I don't need to convince anyone else and I'm not trying to.
>
>> I have to say that this is the nastiest developer mail list I have ever
>> joined,
We are still celebrating a QT/e free device and platform (and we are
probaly gnome zealots too), on a *gtk* centered mailinglist. This is no
excuse, but I wouldn't expect a parade and a visit from the president
when saying you want to use QT/e.
I really don't get your animosity. Every toolkit has its plusses and
minuses, but as far as I know, Qtopia is the only embedded desktop on
embedded linux that is being used in the real world on real devices at the
moment, it must be on about 10 different Zaurus and the Archos and some
other things. I'm not aware of any shipping hardware that uses Maemo at
the moment. This is not propaganda or anything else, just a statement of
fact. Qt/e works and it works very well, but again, it's not germane to
this list or to my question, so I don't care about anyones zealotry, I have
problems that I need to solve and I'm trying to find the best solution in
terms of time, money and effectiveness.
Again my apologies for being rude, and I sincerely hope you can find a
way to run TK apps properly inside the factory flashed image (since it's
writable, ROM would be a bit of a misnomen).
you are trying to lead the reader to believe that I have some intention of
flashing a different image on the device. No where did I say that, nor
even allude to it. You really need to read more carefully what is written
before you decide to on a scalping rant. With that said, apology accepted.
I hope we can happily get along if we ever meet eachother in person.
regards,
Koen
I can't imagine that this kind of interaction with developers is
>> going to do much to get people developing (no offense to the several
>> kind people who emailed me publically and privately). I don't know
>> anything about any wars you might have had on this topic, and it is rude
>> and nasty of you to jump down my throat as if I was involved with your
>> personal issues on this topic.
>
> Yes, I know all about the QT/e (and the propaganda coupled with it), but
> the 770 (device) and maemo (X11/GTK platform) use X, so there is no way
> you can 'look reasonable within the existing framework' if you want to
> use QT/e painting directly to the framebuffer. To make it abundantly
> clear: the 770 is a *device* which you can do with what you want, but
> maemo is a platform that relies on X and to a lesser extent on GTK. The
> previous QT (be it X11 or /e) discussion ended with the note people
> should stop trolling about QT/e and it's suppossedly superiority and
> start working on making QT work with hildon and osso. Maemo uses X and
> GTK, if that offends you or doesn't fit in to your current development
> platform, don't bother this list. Maemo uses X, deal with it. All these
> 'Yes, but qt/e is better' threads start to annoy and aren't
> constructive. Maemo uses X, curse all you want, but that's the truth.
> Don't like it? Produce something better and tell us the results, just
> don't start this pre-emptive whining about QT/e.
> I guess I should now better and stop feeding the trolls (haha, trolltech
> toolkits and trolls), but I think it's time to post a big note to
> maemo.org and nokia.com stating: "Not interested in QT/e, piss off".
> QT is well designed and allows you to build qtopia with X support, no
> problem there. Maemo is a platform, not a device, so pimping opie (a
> nice platform, which is going to switch to QT4/x11, btw) or QT/e annoys
> the crap out of me and judging from the reactions on IRC, a lot of other
> people. Maemo uses X, deal with it. Feel free to install what you want
> on your *device*, but stop bothering us with FUD about X being
> inappriate on embedded devices.
> To make it very clear: QT is nice, a hildonized QT would be a neat thing
> to have, hildonized KDE apps aren't evil, but maemo is primarely a
> X11/GTK platform. Whining about QT/e in the platform (not even the
> device!) list is just childish and promotes prejudices about 'the other
> side of the fence'.
> Either be constructive and start working on proper integration with
> hildon and osso, or continue your effort on a more appropriate
> mailinglist (qt-interest or something). This is a maemo list, not a
> nokia 770 list. Maemo uses X and is a platform.
> I appreciate all the work TT and TK do on qtopia, and their apps are
> very nice, nothing against that, but don't go bullying on maemo for
> being different. I personally carry a deep resentment against QT/e (not
> QT, not qtopia), but that doesn't stop me from working and having fun
> with the Opie people, it just puts me in a foul mood when I read stuff
> like this. Choice is good, so don't stuff qt/e down our throats.
>
> still with regards,
>
> Koen Kooi
>
>
>
>
>> regards,
>
>> Koen
>
>
>
>
>>> Best Regards,
>
>>> Shawn Gordon
>>> President
>>> theKompany.com
>>> www.thekompany.com
>>> www.mindawn.com
>>> 949-713-3276
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> maemo-developers mailing list
>>> maemo-developers@maemo.org
>>> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
>
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Shawn Gordon
>> President
>> theKompany.com
>> www.thekompany.com
>> www.mindawn.com
>> 949-713-3276
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Shawn Gordon
> President
> theKompany.com
> www.thekompany.com
> www.mindawn.com
> 949-713-3276
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers@maemo.org
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
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Regards,
Shawn Gordon
President
theKompany.com
www.thekompany.com
www.mindawn.com
949-713-3276
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