Hi, I see the discussion moving away from the original subject of Alarm management to device management. it wasn't expected, but it's fine, let's just change subject. So please let me spend a few more words on power 770 states and device states in general.
As I wrote in another mail, we really didn't care about suspend because we do not need it, since it is some sort of lame way to save power: giving up response time in favor of power saved. Of course I can brag here about how good our power management is because we have hw that supports it. So suspend is still an honorable choice for those devices with hw that is less willing to help. The 1710 power management hardware is not exactly straightforward but it works indeed, up to a point that it can reliably "run" for relatively long periods without actually wasting too much power. The price for it is that we had to fix drivers and applications so that they would behave decently, without keeping resources (clocks) constantly allocated and without generating unnecessary activity. But that is GOOD anyway because it means having better code, better algorithms. So the 770 can save power even when you have the device in your hand with the screen lit and a wireless connection open, as long as it's not actually doing something, like rendering a web page. Of course the saving won't be as much as it would be when nothing is running and the screen is off, but anyway it takes advantage of these situations automatically, when they occour. And this is probably one of the worst situations. Everything else can enjoy much better power saving because of the less demanding operating conditions. So in the end the whole discussion boils down to how to the UI implementation for certain locking/unlocking features. Suspend is neither necessary, nor desirable. And it would introduce nasty situations, like in the case of being on a plane, or removing the mmc from a suspended device that is swapping on it. The idle/sleep states are already taking care to manage your device on your behalf. That's what could rather be improved, so that the device would spend even more time in low power states, without affecting the performance. Regarding interactions with the 770 that involve entering into some power saving mode: one way to force the power saving to be immediate is to close the cover, the other one is to use the menu from the power button. And this can be done with one single hand. I'm not left handed and I don't do juggling in my spare time, but still i can do the trick quite easily. I think that these issues really belong only to personal taste: we cannot realistically make everyone happy, but we can provide means to easily customise the device behavior, like David mentioned, so that if you don't like how it works, you can help yourself. One last thought: keeping the 770 in your poket without the cover makes it more likely for the screen to be scratched, damaged and so on. No matter how lazy I am, I'd make sure that the cover is in place before poketing the device. On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 19:14 -0500, ext Larry Battraw wrote: > > > On 1/17/06, Weinehall David (Nokia-M/Tampere) > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We already do the power saving part, we already have all the > positive > side effects of keeping alive -- but *if* the user wants to do > a proper > shutdown, which will allow him to keep the device alive even > longer than > usual -- let them. It's not going to hurt you one single bit > -- you're > not forced to use the functionality just because it's there... > > > Current 'Switch off!' mode should be something people should > do only > > when the want to put the device to drawer for months and > want the > > battery charged (which you could do by removing battery > anyway). On ipaq > > you have very awkward key combo for this mode buried deep in > manual on > > page noone reads. Not directly in menu on device. And yes in > this mode > > alarms are not supposed to wake up the device :-) > > > I've been using PDAs since the old Palm Professional and I really > appreciate the way they handle the power button. No state is lost, > it's virtually instantaneous (much like waking the 770!), and I can > grab the device, jot down a note/etc., and switch it off very quickly. > It's rather confusing to hit the power button on 770 and be presented > with a menu; I want it to switch off (or appear to), not ask for more > input. I'd also like it to ignore screen taps once it's pretending to > be off-- unless it sleeps automatically. This way it doesn't wake up > inadvertently in my pocket, but it's easy to tap it to wake it up > again if I let it sleep while doing something else. > Playing music should keep going as it does currently, although an > on-screen button to make it switch the screen off immediately would be > great. I really don't like having it glowing in my pocket, and having > to place the cover on is awkward enough (not a one-hand operation) > that the power button is really important. > Behaving like a Palm will make sense to all the former users like > myself, and delight Zaurus users (myself included) who hated having to > hold down the power button to make it do anything as well as the > considerable lag before it was responsive again. I would reserve a > long press of the power button for either a "hard" power down if > things lock up, or to present the menu at that point. > > Just my 2c, > Larry > > > > I don't really think we should consider iPaq as a reference > point > of brilliant design... > > I definitely expect my devices to wake up from sleep even when > they're > off. Hell, my phone(s) wakes up from sleep even when it's > off. > Yours probably does too. > > > > Power management efficient enough to make suspend > meaningless > > > > If the suspend is taken as replacement of poweroff the > reason is here > > because it should pause the device in the midle of playing > video or > > sound. Take it as the current 'Lock touchscreen and keys' > plus pausing > > sound and network plus anything that takes power or keeps > state that is > > useless after couple of minutes. > > > > Maybe suspending tasks is not needed after all just send > them different > > signal so they know device will be paused for many minutes > and may wake > > up in different environment so they should really > finish/stop what they > > do. So it is probably about more device modes than current > offline or > > flight mode (are they same?) and normal. > > Introducing something like that would mean that we'd need to > modify all > programs to handle custom signals. > > As a side note: yes, at the moment, offline mode and flight > mode are the > same, that may not remain so. > > > > I cannot really understand why a lot of people here seem > to want > > > crippled functionality just because other platforms have > limitations. > > > > Instant poweron and proper pausing of everything when you > press one > > button is not crippled functionality but very simple and > neat thing Palm > > devices do and people expect. > > If you want the kind of soft "poweroff" you talk about, > try putting the cover on your device some time... > > "Whoops! It pauses video playback! It disconnects network > connections!". > > And if you really want the audio playback to be disabled too > when > the cover is closed (personally I find it a quite nice that it > keeps > playing), we can hack that up just for you, no problem. > > All this said, the powerkeymenu is going to be redesigned to > allow for > custom actions, and an action that emulates soft powerup by > doing > "enable keypadlock + offline mode + pause sound playback" > should be > trivial enough to implement. > > > Regards: David Weinehall > _______________________________________________ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers > > _______________________________________________ > maemo-developers mailing list > maemo-developers@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) _______________________________________________ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
