Executive summary: 1. Some aspects of accessibility (providing text alternatives for non-text media) can be treated like translation (and will increase the burden on translation!)
2. Frameworks need to help point out the "pain points". Like: "Yo! there's an ALT-less image here that you can tag!" 3. Frameworks can and should take advantage of embedded comments in non-text media. 4. I personally don't have much clue about partially sighted (color issues or extreme myopia), or those who lack the dexterity to mouse around. However, frameworks can do a lot of the work for improving accessibility for those less dextrous (tab navigation), and maybe for partial sight? David Andrews writes: > I know what you say is true. Nevertheless, it makes me sad. > Twenty percent of the population has some sort of disability, yet > accessibility just isn't taught in computer science courses. The 85% of the world which strongly prefers to use a language other than English bothers me more, to be honest (especially since that's 100% of my dayjob users). Funny thing, American universities don't teach Japanese and Chinese to their CS students. Sad, isn't it? The only accessibility tool for the web that I'm familiar with is the ALT attribute for IMG and other non-text elements of HTML. I should think that "filling in the ALT blanks" would be amenable to the same kind of volunteer effort that provides our natural language translations. I hope that a similar kind of separate effort can deal with many of the accessibility issues. Obviously, the incentive will have to be somewhat different. Unlike translators who generally get involved for their own convenience and have some English ability that grows stronger with the practice, blind people aren't going to be able to write the descriptions of images or video that they need for themselves in many cases, and it's unlikely that they'll improve dramatically with practice. :-( But it should be quite possible to recruit sighted volunteers for the task. I'm not sure how to deal with the partially sighted, although I suppose use of relative dimensions and some CSS is helpful. But this is exactly where frameworks can help. I'm even less sure what to do about colorblindness, and people who lack sufficient dexterity for "pointing and clicking". > The Justice Department has already said that the web is a place of > public accommodation, and the ADA applies. It is only a matter of > time before they issue specific regulations. So, in the near > future, anyone producing publicly facing web sites will need to do > this! No, they won't -- they can always shut down. And I suspect that's exactly what will happen to most volunteer sites if they try to apply the ADA standards to them. I can't be happy about that. I live in Japan, and I assure you that public policies that equalize benefits by reducing the average suck -- especially for the less-well-off. > Using a current, "industrial-strength framework" is not a guarantee > of accessibility, and passing the buck to them will ultimately not > hold water. It had better at least reduce the leakage to a trickle! If it doesn't, accessibility isn't going to happen. Content accessibility really has to be a matter of a separate volunteer effort (especially since every ALT attribute increases the burden on our translators!!), with most of the "pain points" being automatically pointed out by the framework. And things like checking for color and sufficient size of clickable elements and the like should be automatable. Realistically, programmers are *not* going to do this in general. In the case of Mailman, we'll do some of it, but it's hard enough to create a usable site for ourselves, let alone the sighted and nimble in general -- I doubt accessibility is something we'll get to in Mailman 3.0 (except to the extent that general usability principles provide a strong basis for accessible pages, as apparently happened with Mailman 2). Really, you accessibility advocates should be looking for opportunities to organize this kind of effort. The translators prove that such volunteer efforts are practical, and most translators seem to be willing to donate effort to apps they don't use when necessary (obviously, experienced users are preferred). Translators might also be willing to do this kind of thing. But translation only really took off with the development of gettext -- earlier systems were just too painful all around. So you should also be looking for ways to improve the frameworks. For example, most image, audio, and video media now provide for textual comments embedded in the stream. While most content authors do not (yet) provide useful comments, some do and others would be encouraged to do so if the frameworks automagically extracted them and provided them as default ALT attributes. > By the way, the web UI for Mailman 2.X is very accessible -- at least > for blind persons. That's nice to know! > If anyone has an actual site I can get to, I will take a look. I'll talk to the developers here at PyCon and search the mailing list for URLs. A few real lists are running with Mailman 3 + Postorius + HyperKitty already, and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of demo sites. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org