Many thanks for your response Mark. Comments below.
On 22/06/2015 1:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 06/20/2015 06:39 PM, Yasir Assam wrote: >> I'm using mailman 2.1.18 on Debian Jessie with exim4. I have full >> personlisation and verp turned on. >> >> What should I do about DKIM? >> >> At the moment I preserve the original poster's DKIM header and my list's >> MTA also adds DKIM to all outgoing mail. > > This is the good and is the best you can do. I noticed that this list, [email protected], doesn't add a DKIM header unless the list itself generates the email, i.e. the email you sent to this list only has your DKIM header (d=msapiro.net), whereas the original welcome email has DKIM with d=python.org. On my list, I'm adding a DKIM header for the list domain, even though the From: header isn't the list. In other words, if [email protected] posts to [email protected], my MTA was still adding a d=example.com DKIM header when resending her email via the list, even when From: is [email protected]. Is it right to do this? I subscribed to [email protected] using a Yahoo address, and interestingly, 2 emails ended up in spam (one of which was my original post, which is from a non-yahoo address). >> If I set from_is_list to Munge, hotmail users can't reply to the list, >> even when they hit Reply All (if I try doing Reply All from a hotmail >> account, I only see the sender's address, not the list address). If it >> wasn't for this hotmail problem, I'd probably prefer to have a munged >> from header. > > With Munge From and Full Personalization, delivered posts will be From: > the list with Reply-To: the poster and To: the recipient. Hotmail is > taking the Reply-To: as overriding the From: even for reply-all and with > Full Personalization, the From: is the only header (other than > List-Post) with the list address. This isn't quite true in my case. You're right about all the headers, except that Mailman is adding a CC field with the list address. To be clear, using Full Personalisation and Munge From: From: list address Reply-to: poster To: recipient CC: list address Given that CC contains the list address, you'd expect Hotmail to include it as a recipient when doing Reply All, but it doesn't! >> If I set from_is_list to No, the hotmail Reply All problem goes away, >> but now Yahoo-sent email ends up in Yahoo's spam (i.e. if >> [email protected] sends to [email protected], bob receives the email he >> just posted in his spam folder, not in his inbox). I'm specifically >> talking about a yahoo.com.au address (I haven't tried yahoo.com yet). > > Yahoo.com.au publishes DMARC p=none. Yahoo.com publishes DMARC p=reject. > Without some Munge From, Wrap Message or anonymous_list transformation, > yahoo.com mail will not be accepted by Yahoo, Hotmail and many other ISPs. Yes, I read about this recently. My test list doesn't yet contain any yahoo.com addresses. > As far as the mail from yahoo.com.au ending up in spam, removing the > broken DKIM sig may help (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = 2). It shouldn't matter > (see below), but it may help. I think I tried this but it didn't make a difference to Yahoo's spam filter. >> Just to be clear, when from_is_list is No, the DKIM header I'm adding is >> for the list domain, e.g. if the list is [email protected] then >> d=example.com in my added DKIM header. >> Here's an example Authentication-Results added by a gmail subscriber >> receiving a post from a yahoo.com.au subscriber (names changed): >> >> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; >> spf=pass (google.com: domain of >> [email protected] designates x.x.x.x as permitted >> sender) [email protected]; >> dkim=pass [email protected]; >> dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com.au >> >> So what is the recommended way of doing this? Should I not bother adding >> a DKIM header to mailman-sent emails? Should I strip the original DKIM >> header (REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS) ? > > What you are doing is correct and good practice. Removing incoming DKIM > headers probably won't help. The DKIM standard says an invalid DKIM > signature and no DKIM signature SHOULD be treated the same (RFC 6376/STD > 76, sec 6.3) > > >> Is there any way I can get hotmail to reply to the list when the From: >> header is munged? Is munging considered bad form (when not mitigating >> DMARC reject policies)? > > There are a few things you can do. > > You can turn off Full Personalization which will leave the list address > in To: and Hotmail's reply-all should include it. Hotmail doesn't include it. I tried Full Personalisation off, Munge on, with the following headers: From: list address Reply-to: poster To: list address In Hotmail, Reply All only includes poster, not list address (despite list address appearing in To field) > You can set reply_to_list to this list which will put the list address > in Reply-To: (along with the poster's address), but this will make it > more difficult to reply only to the poster as a simple reply will also > include the list. I used to have this on years ago, and what happened was that repliers were sending private mail to the whole list when they only intended it for the original poster. I ended up getting complaints and had to turn it off. > There are some changes in this area in 2.1.19 (see > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1407098>), but I don't think > they help your situation. > > You could modify CookHeaders.py to add the poster's address to Cc: > rather than Reply-To: in your case. If munging is on, and I put the poster address in CC: rather than Reply-to: won't that mean a single Reply (not Reply All) will go to the list address? > You should also consider using dmarc_moderation_action rather than > from_is_list to only Munge From when 'necessary'. > The reason I tried from_is_list = Munge is because I wanted valid DKIM headers (added by my MTA). When I used Munge with DKIM added to all list mail, yahoo didn't mark any mail as spam. I would have stuck with it if I didn't have the hotmail Reply All problem. Thanks, Yasir ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
