Hans Zimmerman said: "of course nobody is going to feedback the last one (about pronunciation)."
Well first, Hans, I found your reply most interesting and useful and I was intending to reply (that's what they all say!). Much of what you write, though, I fully accept and would not, in any case, be competent to argue with it. I suppose it is horses for courses. In general conversation here in England I would have to say "Sisero", in Italy, I suppose "Chichero" and among Latin scholars, maybe, "Kikero". One of the problems, I imagine, is that the Latin that was still in spoken use until the late Middle Ages had changed substantially from Classical Latin and when the Classical authors started to become more widely available the pronounciation the reader was most familiar with would have been applied. Anyway, my 'school' pronunciation seems to be very close to the one you describe from Germany though I have difficulty in thinking that 'weni' instead of 'veni' is nothing but an affectation. The German 'ö' I would say is more like the English 'ir' in 'sir', but that to some extent depends on variations in regional accent. Please rest assured Hans that I very much enjoy your postings and read them with attention and interest. Patrick Roper > This discussion seems to be everywhere, also here in Germany. > Some standards are so clear, that they might be out of discussion: > In classical period (Cicero-time) > c was always spoken as guttural explosive (in Germany: k) > - absolutely not in the church-Latin way with Italian "ci", > but also not in the French way as sharp s - > and it changes in late antiquity; > r with the top of the tongue (what the Germans cannot do > except the Bavarians) > s always sharp - the soft s between vowels had been changed > to r - (Germans use > to speak every s softly) > v as sounding bilabial: dubble-u (Germans mostly speak a > dentolabial for v) > > The discussion goes on about the diphthongs: I prefer to > speak "ae" as the "i" > in words like "like" or "wise", but school-pronounciation > in Germany is "ä", > like in English "let" or "many"; and Germans speak "oe" as > "ö", similar to the > vowel in English "burn", and "eu" as "oi" like the > diphthong in English "voice"; > but I think this "oi" is better to take for "oe", and "eu" > should be spoken as > "ev". > > "ä" for "ae" is so terrible! hear a verse like: > > si canimus silvas silvae sint consule dignae > > that lives from the diphthong in Kontrapunkt to the bright > i and the silversound > of whispering s - ? > > And I think, the vowels are often the "problem" in the > "English" pronounciation > of Latin verses. > > But! Yesterday Mr Piech of Volkswagen taught us a new > pronounciation for Phaeton > - he said, the new name of the new VW-luxuscar produced in > his house shall be > "feuilleton" > with an ö (as in "burn") in the first syllabe and a French > nasal at the end (as > in French "bon"). "Feuilleton, the son of Helios" (or maybe > better "Heelaies" > with long i in the beginning etc. - ?) > (A right and true destined accident-car, - we must expect > this from the myth.) > > The worst example for the English Verballhornung of old > names is the name of > the searching engine "lycos": > 1. with c for k (Greek word!) > 2. spoken with a diphthong for simple y (between u and i, > German: ü, or at least > pure u). > > o and o, these changings of names in the streams of English > - - djeewiz! > > grusz, hansz > > > Hans Zimmermann > http://home.t-online.de/home/mosaiken/ekloga4.htm > http://home.t-online.de/home/hanumans/hansz.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation > marks). You > can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
