Of course each of the competitors we are talking about (MI and AV) has its
own strength. Personally I feel that AV is stronger on map output (map
annotations in layouts), whereas MI seems to be easier to use. A strength of
MI which is only rarely mentioned is that you can put points, lines, and
regions into a single layer/table ! This in my opinion is a very particular
strength, since a program should never force me to model different geometry
types into different layers. At least in MI you are free to separate
geometry types or not. Additionally each object can be formatted
separately - not possible in AV, unless you use thematic mapping. Also map
projections are much better implemented in MI and MapBasic code is easier to
write.
However, it is really annoying that MapInfo does not spend much effort to
add / improve functionality the user needs. All this 3D stuff is pretty
useless, since Vertical Mapper can do it better, so no improvement for
people who bought VM. But we still have to live with the stupid table
browser, in which you still cannot navigate as in spreadsheets. Map
annotations are still far below for what is required for standard map
output. Why didn't they include the new topology manager into the product
instead of the 3D stuff ? What about a better query builder and a more
intuitive way to join tables ? When will the MapBasic development
environment be improved ? What about a visual form editor ?
MapInfo developers, there are so many things you can do to make your product
much more attractive ! Since version 4.5 I haven't seen much reason to
justify the price for an upgrade. Even new features like the new legends are
put only incrementally into the product. First a new feature misses so many
possibilities that you can hardly use it (i.e. the legend feature in its
first release, where you could hardly produce a legend in a format you
need). Then the feature is upgraded, but still lacking functionality (i.e.
can you already sort legend items in the way you need it, I mean completely
customized ?????). Is this incremental improvement method ?
Listen to some other list members, you get the feeling that desktop mapping
is dead ! The future belongs to internet mapping. Of course, we at Bavarian
Geological Survey develop also a spatial database, and we will use an ESRI
SDE / Oracle solution combined with Java-based browser clients, because
prototyping revealed that the SDE/Oracle/MapObject combination had better
performance for queries on complex spatial objects.
However, we have still a lot of users who do simple desktop mapping to
produce maps, which simply document the work they have done during the year.
Isn't this a market anymore ? Isn't there enough profit to implement what
the users need ? We definitely need better labelling algorithms, better
WYSIWYG layouts, better tools to produce output !
Oh well, I remember writing nearly the same stuff, when version 5.0 came
out.
Thomas Gulden
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von Ian Allan
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2000 15:01
An: Neil Havermale; MapInfo-L
Betreff: Re: MI Best GIS for dollar
Hi Neil
Neil Havermale wrote:
> Ian -
>
> You have to be joking! Do it all over again? ESRI's AkeView superior to
> MapInfo?
>
I think that you need to read what I wrote again. As an "overall" product,
ArcView is in many ways superior to mapinfo because it is so well integrated
with other components (3d, raster, image processing,...). Mapinfo has
concentrated its efforts on desktop mapping and it is good at that. I chose
to
use it because it met my needs at the time. In many ways it still does meet
my
needs. I use it centrally to my business, but do not have tunnel vision
about
it.
>
> Given your small summary and last (and almost missing) detail on your
> uplifting story of ESRI's AkeInfo 8.0 (to be confused with AkeView), that
is
> its price tag of, what, $51,000 AUD or $27,500 US, I think you have had
your
> mind ESRI-ized!
>
You're right. There was much missing detail because I thought I had deleted
that
comment from the email. I apologise for that. However, I am confused about
exactly what you mean by having my mind ESRI-ized though. Is this good or
bad? I
would be grateful if you would explain.
As for the rest of your email, I'm afraid that I only understand a little of
what you're on about. I do take your point that mapInfo has gone the
internet
way, & rightly so. But I do think you have missed the point that many of us
have
been making about your friends at "NapInfo". This is that much of its client
base uses desktop mapping & not net based mapping. In many parts of the
world
networks are too slow to allow this to happen at the moment, & within many
organizations there is neither the budgets or expertise to allow this to
happen.
Also, some organizations are either too specialist or too small. As users of
specialist software, we would like an upgrade to include increased
functionality
in addition to improved WinTel compatibility.
Perhaps what you seem to be saying in that bit of your email that I have
difficulty deciphering is that MapX meets your business needs. I am very
pleased
for you on that one. The world would be a wonderful place if your experience
could be repeated for all of us.
Regards
Ian Allan
>
> Here are a couple of other biased opinions you also need to provide to
those
> contemplating AkeView:
>
> AkeView's language, Avenue, is in my opinion DOA given ESRI's absorption
by
> the Microsoft BORG. Their nomination of NT, adoption and special-issue of
> VisualAkeBasic is Jack-came too-late COM-ization of the AkeInfo flagship
> The AkeView give-away has essentially stolen the growth from ESRI as its
> WINTEL orientation beheaded the AkeInfo money stream. They have to kill
> AkeView off lest they have to compete with the Manifolds, BlueMarbles,
> IDRISIs, and yes even MapInfo. (Use the old FUD effect!)
>
> And lastly, the unholy GIS trinity of SUN-Oracle-ESRI is gone. SUN sees a
> looming Linux slowly creeping up on them via Intel and its clones.
Oracle?
> Well Oracle has made their choice and that as far as I can tell is
MapInfo.
> And ESRI, what of ESRI?
>
> ESRI has been absorbed by the BORG - Microsoft. ("LINUX, I don't want no
> stink'n LINUX", exclaimed Jack and he and Bill map a common interest.) I
> can not imagine how all of the SUN workstation GISers who see the future
of
> their skill being captured by NT and VisualAkeBasic feel. It must be a
> horrible. A slow and painful death as they see the lowly NT and
> VisualAkeBasic programmer eating away at their Unix-FUD foundations. Gulp!
>
> Yep, its an easy target to go after NapInfo. You know, that company that
> put a GUI on your WINTEL machine long before Jack felt the need ($) to do
> Windows. And it was that little-old NapInfo that still can provide to
every
> EXCEL user who has interest, TAB mapping. And lastly it has been MapInfo
> that has changed the competitive landscape on the Internet by going ESRI
one
> better compliant JAVA, and being a partner of Oracle.
>
> For all you nap-sters who think it may be NapInfo and not MapInfo, get a
> life! We saw the writing on the wall along time ago and believe MapX is
the
> best pathway for investing our limited resources. Our mapping results
> remain compatible to Professional and we have an excellent bridge to
> scalable GIS tools via the NET. And for those willing to ride out the
> ESRI-ite-FUD plant on "our" un-edited list, the next step - MapJ and a
CORBA
> design? Hmmmm.... gosh, I just don't get it?
>
> FWIW
> MidNight Mapper
> aka Neil
> 5/11/00
>
> PS. Don't let these, the "absorborg" ake-lurkers on the MapInfo-l list
pipe
> you away. You fear the rats and scheme how you'll short change the piper!
> The longer term price you may pay is the loss of your children.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Allan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:23 AM
> To: shepherd stewart; MapInfo-L
> Subject: Re: MI Best GIS for dollar
>
> Hi Shepherd
>
> You're going through the same dilemna that many of us must continually go
> through. To be honest, if I was starting with GIS from scratch, was doing
> GIS
> for just myself, had a good budget & wanted a mainstream desktop system
that
> could deliver the best stuff both both in terms of social & environmental
> geography, I would undoubtedly go the esri (arcview) path. It is my belief
> that
> esri have substantial updates, the most academically sound products, and
> also
> some of the fastest running code. A big reason for this is Esri's size,
and
> its
> range of products. However, that said, often there is a bigger picture.
For
> example, although arcview may be a better GIS & includes the Avenue
> programming
> language, it does not include a code-capturing window. MapInfo has its
> mapbasic
> window, & being able to cut & paste code from this into a mapbasic program
> makes MapInfo one of the most productive programming environments I have
> seen.
> What "exactly" do you want GIS for? If its simply map making then MapInfo
> may
> be the way to go. If its "complex" spatial queries then ArcView may be the
> way.
> You need to be aware that you may need to be compatible with other users,
or
> potentially may lock them into decisions you make. If you're a programmer
&
> trying to sell your wares, you'll need to be sure your target market can
run
> your software. There is also the issue of price & cost of upgrades. You
need
> also to be aware that some GISs work really well on small datasets but not
> on
> larger ones. For example, I purchased IDRISIs CartaLynx topology builder
> last
> year, but in > 4 hours of processing, it could not achieve what PC ArcInfo
> could achieve in around 2 minutes.
>
> You mention Manifold. I cannot comment on this yet. Its web page makes it
> sound
> very impressive but my biggest concern is that it may turn out to be
another
> CartaLynx performance-wise. I will be evaluating V5.0 when it is released
&
> intend posting a review on MapInfo-L once I have done this.
>
> Please feel free to email me again if you have any more queries.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian Allan
>
> For example, I got a quote from esri recently for ArcInfo. At $51K AUD for
> the
> basic product, this is well out of the range for my small business
>
> shepherd stewart wrote:
>
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I have been reading the threads on MI and ArcView in the same office and
> am
> > interested in peoples opinions as to value. I am considering purchase
of
> a
> > GIS but would like info on value vs functionality.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put
> "unsubscribe MAPINFO-L" in the message body, or contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this list, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put
"unsubscribe MAPINFO-L" in the message body, or contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
