Dick,
I paid $200 for MI 2.X through the University of Washington academic pricing
program in 1993. All of my upgrades since have been bought through the
local MI distributor and I've never had any further hint of an MI academic
program. But, it seems to have been there in some form in '93.
I can only speculate (which I particularly enjoy) that MI dropped academia
in favor of telecoms, but, if you read the papers, they're they should be
looking hard for other markets!
My experience with ArcView is that the broad academic, scientific and
government user communities, probably created by student's easy access, have
made some great freeware and shareware extensions that make the basic AV
product actually useable. I'd like to see that kind of energy go into making
MI improvements.
Tim Rood
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hoskins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:09 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: MI-L MI in academics
I have tried for years to get MapInfo to allow (for nothing) my use of MI in
my spatial epidemiology class. I would like to use VM as well. Simply NO
interest.Period. VM will sell academic licenses. I got some token rake-off
from MI. They seem to be completely unable to understand that I do not have
tens of thousands of dollars to buy multiseat licenses. Clearly the idea of
using the academic market to leverage later sales doesn't appeal to them.
But it has worked for SAS, SPSS, STATA. S-Plus, many other packages.
As noted for the rest of the country, ESRI has nearly totally tied up our
campus GIS use. Caliper Corp (Maptitude) will allow me to use their GIS
without charge in the computer lab and then for some summer institutes, etc
gives a large price break for students and is generally a very friendly
company. Maptitude has some nice features I need for epidemiology.
At my university, I can use all of the ESRI stuff for "free" - someone has
already paid. Also users have access to their on-line courses which are
quite good. No other vendor does that. The ESRI campus idea is a good one.
Even when one has to pay - its cheap! I would rather not use ESRI stuff
because the learning curve is very steep and it is missing features I need.
Anyway, Caliper responds, I am sure IRDISI would, same for Manifold, all
very, very strong products competing with MI more than AV.
If MI is listening, you need to change your ways ... I can't keep getting
upgrades to MI when it can't be used in the classroom. I have other tools.
Dick Hoskins
University if Washington
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hoskins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:09 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: MI-L MI in academics
I have tried for years to get MapInfo to allow (for nothing) my use of MI in
my spatial epidemiology class. I would like to use VM as well. Simply NO
interest.Period. VM will sell academic licenses. I got some token rake-off
from MI. They seem to be completely unable to understand that I do not have
tens of thousands of dollars to buy multiseat licenses. Clearly the idea of
using the academic market to leverage later sales doesn't appeal to them.
But it has worked for SAS, SPSS, STATA. S-Plus, many other packages.
As noted for the rest of the country, ESRI has nearly totally tied up our
campus GIS use. Caliper Corp (Maptitude) will allow me to use their GIS
without charge in the computer lab and then for some summer institutes, etc
gives a large price break for students and is generally a very friendly
company. Maptitude has some nice features I need for epidemiology.
At my university, I can use all of the ESRI stuff for "free" - someone has
already paid. Also users have access to their on-line courses which are
quite good. No other vendor does that. The ESRI campus idea is a good one.
Even when one has to pay - its cheap! I would rather not use ESRI stuff
because the learning curve is very steep and it is missing features I need.
Anyway, Caliper responds, I am sure IRDISI would, same for Manifold, all
very, very strong products competing with MI more than AV.
If MI is listening, you need to change your ways ... I can't keep getting
upgrades to MI when it can't be used in the classroom. I have other tools.
Dick Hoskins
University if Washington
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jeroen
Wagendorp
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MI-L skills and markets
All still very true and every day more frustrating, but MI simply does not
care and even if they did it would take years to undue the below referred
facts. Thus why should us users care! Lets face it, most (all) academic
institutions teach ESRI software first, GIS second (or third). Hence,
ESRI=GIS to all those indoctrinated. I can not help but believe that in the
long run and short run MI will suffer because of this. I know in Michigan
MI is slowly but surely and systematically replaced in the public sector
except for a few enlightened types who realize the big picture (and the
annual $$$$ savings)
Jeroen Wagendorp
-----Original Message-----
From: Feinberg, Harold [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:44 PM
To: 'Lawley, Russell S'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]';
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MI-L skills and markets
Russell,
Your comment regarding ESRI penetrating the academic market echoes of
another marketing battle between Microsoft, Wordperfect, Lotus and Borland.
Quite simply, Microsoft used a strategy (coupled w/ it's Windows 3.x
strongarm tactics)of marketing their software to universities as being
"more
compatible" with windows. Universities added courses for Word and Excel in
lieu of courses in Wordperfect and Lotus123. Not only did MS gain a
foothold
in academia by getting instruction offered, they offered their full MS
Office suite to students to use on their home PCs at 1/4 the cost of the
regularly priced software. Microsoft ensured the future workforce would be
disposed to MS-Office products vs the competition.
ESRI has stolen a page from Microsoft's playbook. Offering "Certified ESRI"
instructor courses to teaching professionals who in turn marketed their
certification to schools, resulting in hundreds of AV courses and thousands
of trained students. Furthermore, ESRI offered full versions of it's AV
software at a huge discount to academia. Meanwhile ESRI has succeeded in
it's government marketing not only by offering large software programs
which
are expensive and difficult to learn (which Government guys like for some
reason), but also by making available a trained workfore fresh out of the
universities. These marketing efforts, Coupled with the new ArcGIS 8.1
paradigm (which interestingly takes some of the best features of MapInfo
Professional) shouldn't leave one wondering how ESRI is surpassing MI with
what is by most standards, up to now, inferior software.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawley, Russell S [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 5:00 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MI-L skills and markets
Denn
spot on.... I got used to being described as a 'lightweight GIS developer'
because i concentrated on mapinfo rather tha AV many years ago, and i know
that it has negatively affected my CV in recent job applications because of
a pervasive feeling in UK local government and academia that somehow Av,
and av skills are vastly 'superior'. I believe MAPINFO has really suffered
in UK; ESRI were shrewd enough to work out that academia is where it all
starts, government is where its regulated and everywhere else is where it
ends up.
As a result of this I am now having to 'join' the ARCXXX8 bandwagon, ( but
i have to say the departure of ESRI 'Views' and 'themes', and the arrival
of
'Maps' and 'layers', and 'on the fly projections' and the removal of yards
and yards of mouse mileage, etc is making this rather easy for me........
regards
r
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