Hi again, Your key identifier with iOS and Android is your email address. You mention corporate and political world in the USA and EU, that's a very sizable market indeed.
If you want migrations from Microsoft Office you need alternative applications, you can't just have a void and say we no longer will use mail and calendaring any longer I don't think it is likely realistic to expect LibreOffice to write a mail client from scratch, I do however think it is beneficial to form strategic partnerships with other projects to fill the missing gap and promote them as a strong FLOSS alternative to a proprietary solution and work together in their mutual benefit as a 'high tide' raises all boats so to speak. Where I think you do have a valid point is with this line. 'Signal is open source, works on all platforms already and offers all the modern communication facilities.' I think Signal is excellent too, I think it makes sense to have that sort of communication tool, I'm just not sure if that makes more than the 'bread and butter' of having an integrated mail client/PIM that something like Evolution/Betterbird/Thunderbird offers. And this is where the strategic partnership aspects comes into play. Maybe some software could be bundled together or promoted on the download page, but you need to the collaboration to come from the project governing boards or leadership to promote the collaboration. An outreach program is sorely needed in the Office productivity space for the FLOSS desktop/cloud. Kind regards On Tue, 28 Dec 2021, 10:03 Clocked Modular, <bo...@clocked.eu> wrote: > Hi All, > > I've worked in multinationals and for governments in Europe and the US. I > know how email dependent they are. > But I've also worked with Taiwan and Korean business. And 20 years ago > already they were moving to mobile. > Also, outside the old stile corporate and gov bubbles, most communication > today is done without email. And in some cases even already without domain > names. > > Still, email is big, I agree. But it is clearly not the future. The main > reason being that the protocol was developed in a different technological > reality (no mobile, no internet). All attempts to adapt the protocol to > modern needs fail time and time again. And there are obvious technological > reasons for it. > Consequently, governments, banks and corporate client communication is > moving to dedicated message boxes. Not using email anymore. This is because > that way they can control the privacy. Email (or RCS > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>) then is only > used to inform about new messages in the private inbox. > > The root cause is that an email address is not a unique end user ID but a > unique server user ID. The ITU phone number system however is a unique end > user ID system. > Google and Apple clearly have identified this reality, and also are moving > step by step towards mobile phone numbering rather than email addressing. > But always inside their bubble(Android or iOS), of course. > Signal is open source, works on all platforms already and offers all the > modern communication facilities. > > I recommend integrating Signal into LibreOffice rather than email. We > should look at Google and Apple for what the market is doing. Not the old > dinosaurs like IBM and Microsoft are pointing the way, but they are. > > Met vriendelijke groet, > With kind regards, > Boudi van Vlijmen. > > *Because email is an old and insecure first generation internet protocol > we will, **in time, stop** to use email. If you want to contact us and > are not known with us, you can use the web contact form > <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg/viewform>. > If you are known with us you can use our signal account > <https://www.signal.org/> or* RCS > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services> *to chat, or > we share an cloud environment.* > === > Omdat e-mail een oud en onveilig internetprotocol van de eerste generatie > is, zullen we op termijn stoppen met het gebruik van e-mail. Als u > contact met ons wilt opnemen en niet bij ons bekend bent, kunt u het > contactformulier > <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg/viewform> > gebruiken. Als u bij ons bekend bent, kunt u ons signal > <https://www.signal.org/>-account of RCS > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services> gebruiken om > te chatten, of we delen een uitwisseling omgeving. > > > Op di 28 dec. 2021 om 09:13 schreef James Harking <james.hark...@gmail.com > >: > >> Hi all, >> >> I completely disagree that e-mail is a fading technology that will soon be >> replaced. It is the only universal communication method realistically for >> business outside of telephone calls. We after all are now using e-mail to >> communicate on this mailing list. >> >> I work in a large multinational and e-mail is absolutely essential for me >> when dealing with colleagues and customers outside my organisation. >> >> Also mail clients often have a calendar and contacts function that are >> integrated. That is why I really think this is a short coming of >> LibreOffice currently. >> >> I'm forced to use Outlook daily I appreciate all it does, after this I >> next >> use Excel and Teams, sometimes Word. >> >> From this list LibreOffice only has comparable applications to two (Word >> and Excel) and that in my opinion makes any migrations problematic if you >> need to research a lot of solutions before you can replace this core >> functionality in Microsoft Office. >> >> Kind regards >> >> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021, 07:39 Clocked Modular, <bo...@clocked.eu> wrote: >> >> > Following Microsoft never was a good idea. >> > Until the mobile phone revolution, MS applied horde-control for their >> > marketing. >> > Now the horde goes largely their own way. Only western governments stay >> > behind. >> > >> > Email is a fading out technology and is most of the time replaced by >> > smartphone based solutions. >> > That is why we should consider integrating signal.org and be part of >> the >> > horde rather than joining the lagging behind. >> > https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop >> > That way we hook in all the functionality of meeting, chatting, etc. >> > All open source, free and privacy secure. >> > >> > Met vriendelijke groet, >> > With kind regards, >> > Boudi van Vlijmen. >> > >> > *Because email is an old and insecure first generation internet protocol >> > we will, **in time, stop** to use email. If you want to contact us and >> > are not known with us, you can use the web contact form >> > < >> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg/viewform >> >. >> > If you are known with us you can use our signal account >> > <https://www.signal.org/> or* RCS >> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services> *to chat, >> or >> > we share an cloud environment.* >> > === >> > Omdat e-mail een oud en onveilig internetprotocol van de eerste >> generatie >> > is, zullen we op termijn stoppen met het gebruik van e-mail. Als u >> > contact met ons wilt opnemen en niet bij ons bekend bent, kunt u het >> > contactformulier >> > < >> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeW6oPf3_HhJ6P_ONNCAVy7CJNSmga7WX4ln2CgAxZB6ycfzg/viewform >> > >> > gebruiken. Als u bij ons bekend bent, kunt u ons signal >> > <https://www.signal.org/>-account of RCS >> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services> gebruiken >> om >> > te chatten, of we delen een uitwisseling omgeving. >> > >> > >> > Op ma 27 dec. 2021 om 22:12 schreef James Harking < >> james.hark...@gmail.com >> > >: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I just responded to a question on the LibreOffice reddit thread >> regarding >> >> if LibreOffice needs a Outlook like application. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/roj4m8/who_would_love_to_see_libreoffice_include_a/ >> >> >> >> It appears that the vast majority of responders think it does, however >> >> that's not my point. I'll paste what I wrote there. Maybe you guys have >> >> some thoughts? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> James >> >> >> >> ################# >> >> >> >> The short answer is of course it should, it has for 10 years and Open >> >> Office did before it. But needing something and having the resources >> to do >> >> that are not the same things.LibeOffice does not compete with Microsoft >> >> Office, only Writer, Calc and arguably Impress are comparable to their >> >> counterparts. >> >> >> >> There is not a replacement for OneNote and Teams which are the growth >> >> applications for Microsoft. Arguably the rest are in 'maintenance >> mode' as >> >> they are very mature by now. Office suites are moving to the cloud in >> the >> >> mid term, desktop clients are still very important but their importance >> >> will start to wain eventually. Next cloud see this hence why they have >> the >> >> collaboration with Collabora. >> >> >> >> What the FLOSS Office space needs is a strong and focused working group >> >> between applications that could help to fill the void that LibreOffice >> is >> >> lacking compared to Microsoft Office such as Project Libre (Project), >> >> Betterbird (Outlook) possibly Joplin (One Note). Goals should be agreed >> >> for >> >> closer integration and cross promotion be emphasised. >> >> >> >> The sum of these individual projects will be larger than that of any >> >> individual project going its own way. I believe that there is something >> >> similar for the 'art' applications like GIMP, Scribus, Inkscape and >> Krita >> >> with an annual conference that takes place. >> >> >> >> This is missing from what I can tell for the productivity space. I have >> >> posted this previously on the LibreOffice marketing mailing list. >> >> >> >> If you are a management consultant it is easy to choose Microsoft >> because >> >> it is all so integrated and the cost is not necessarily a hindrance in >> >> most >> >> cases. But choosing LibreOffice forces you to look at supporting apps >> and >> >> there appears to be little focus on providing an integrated solution >> and >> >> that's the issue. >> >> >> >> To successfully compete with Microsoft and their huge resources cross >> >> project collaboration is essential or else everyone will 'pull' in >> their >> >> own way and each individual project will remain as niche as it is >> >> currently >> >> when there is so much opportunity to really go out there and compete on >> >> not >> >> price but user freedom and privacy which are so topical for the space >> >> LibreOffice et al are competing in. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021, 18:09 Filipe Gomes Morgado, <fgm...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Paolo, thank you for focusing on this EU "angle", and to all the >> others >> >> for >> >> > so many and so rich interventions, IMO (y). >> >> > >> >> > Portugal, as far as I know, and just to give easily observed data - >> >> > information/intel -, has been working in the area of >> interoperability, >> >> > since June 21, 2011. >> >> > >> https://dre.pt/dre/detalhe/lei/36-2011-670285 >> >> > >> >> > On November 8, 2012, with ODF 1.1. >> >> > >> >> >> https://dre.pt/dre/detalhe/resolucao-conselho-ministros/91-2012-191863 >> >> > >> https://files.dre.pt/1s/2012/11/21600/0646006465.pdf >> >> > >> >> > On January 5, 2018, with ODF 1.2. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> https://dre.pt/dre/detalhe/resolucao-conselho-ministros/2-2018-114457664 >> >> > >> https://files.dre.pt/1s/2018/01/00400/0012100127.pdf >> >> > >> >> > IMO this means that, under normal conditions, interoperability would >> be >> >> an >> >> > issue for microsoft to worry about, and discuss within itself, and >> not >> >> for >> >> > the L.O. >> >> > Because people deal with each other and with companies, and everyone >> >> deals >> >> > with government institutions. >> >> > >> >> > So, whoever, like me, wants to "fight" for the L.O., first or at the >> >> same >> >> > time, will have to "fight" against the EU, Germany(von der leyen, >> team), >> >> > your own national or local government, ... >> >> > Where some of you can say: We have been there, done that, and even >> have >> >> the >> >> > T-shirts to prove it :) . >> >> > >> >> > On the other hand, some time ago, I saw the Board of Directors >> election >> >> > videos, 2021, and they talked about lobbying in the EU, costs, etc... >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4XDlEGL94&ab_channel=LibreOffice-TheDocumentFoundation >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL1NnGvbZT8&ab_channel=LibreOffice-TheDocumentFoundation >> >> > >> >> > Bearing in mind the topic, and for the "How we are different" table, >> I >> >> > think it may or may not be relevant - in normal conditions - to >> mention >> >> > something along the lines of: >> >> > - Libreoffice is in line with European law and directives blah blah >> >> blah, >> >> > for blah blah blah, on open software and interoperability blah blah >> >> > blah, according to the European directive blah blah blah ... >> >> > >> >> > Note: For private users using microsoft. Private scientific and >> research >> >> > data has to deal with government institutions, like all the others, >> and >> >> > they will have to solve their interoperability problems. Ask >> microsoft >> >> :) . >> >> > >> >> > Filipe Gomes Morgado *is using:* >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 at 20:29, Paolo Debortoli < >> >> paolo_debort...@yahoo.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Hi. there is another legal EU issue (inside the European Union), >> >> > which >> >> > > is important. Please understand that I can mention but not >> explain >> >> it, >> >> > > because I am not an expert in this field. >> >> > > >> >> > > Eu has made since years open data (definition: >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/c_5ea6e5c4 >> >> ) >> >> > mandatory >> >> > > for public administrations. I think the last version is directive >> UE >> >> > > 2019/1024. so, imnteroperability and availability are not only >> >> > > comfortable, but mandatory. >> >> > > >> >> > > this should be also for scientific and research data. >> >> > > >> >> > > so, I guess, proprietary data format are not suited for this >> purpose. >> >> > > >> >> > > Paolo >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Sunday, December 26, 2021, 07:56:00 PM GMT+1, Ravi Dwivedi < >> >> > > r...@ravidwivedi.in> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On 26/12/21 6:26 pm, Italo Vignoli wrote: >> >> > > > MS Office documents carry 80% of all malware because they are >> >> > > > intentionally complex, in order to perpetuate user lock-in (the >> more >> >> > > > complex the document, the lower the chances that third party >> >> software >> >> > > > such as LibreOffice is able to interoperate). The hidden >> complexity >> >> is >> >> > > > strictly related to the way OOXML - MS Office pseudo-standard >> >> format - >> >> > > > has been intentionally developed. So, this means that switching >> from >> >> > > > OOXML to ODF - LibreOffice standard document format - would >> reduce >> >> > > > security issues by a significant percentage. >> >> > > >> >> > > This one is an interesting point. I would like to read more about >> it. >> >> > > >> >> > > Italo, can you please send some article(s) on it? or we can write >> one >> >> > too. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: >> >> marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> >> > > Problems? >> >> > > >> >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> >> > > Posting guidelines + more: >> >> > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> >> > > List archive: >> https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >> >> > > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: >> marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> >> > Problems? >> >> > >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> >> > Posting guidelines + more: >> >> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> >> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >> >> > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> >> Problems? >> >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> >> Posting guidelines + more: >> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> >> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >> >> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> >> >> > >> > ============================================= >> > This information is intended for consignee only. >> > For address, registrations, privacy and further legal information please >> > refer to our websites. >> > © Clocked S.O. B.V. Netherlands >> > >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> > > ============================================= > This information is intended for consignee only. > For address, registrations, privacy and further legal information please > refer to our websites. > © Clocked S.O. B.V. 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