On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:54:38 -0800 (PST) andie nachgeborenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Typically shallow. > > > Hook tried to drag Dewey into Marxism but failed. > > Possibly. But Towards The Understanding Of Karl Marx > is the only book by an American Marxist one can > seriously compare to, e.g., Lukacs' History and Class > Consciousness. If it is a failure, it is magnificant > one -- a failure in the way all great philosophy is a > failure. > > I think that Hook had a > > generally deeper > > understanding of both pragmatism and Marxism. > > Indeeds. > > > > > > > > > As for myth in politics, there's some statement by > > Carnap to the > > > effect that socialism can only be accepted by the > > masses on the > > > basis of emotional appeals. > > > > I think it is clear that for Carnap, socialism could > > be justified in > > terms of a scientific analysis of society and of > > history but that > > the masses were likely to be brought over to > > socialism by > > emotional appeals. Such a view may have been > > elitist, since > > it would presumably divide society into two classes, > > one > > an elite class of social scientists who would > > reconstruct > > society using the methods of the social sciences and > > everyone else, who would be persuaded by the social > > scientists to accept this new order. Such a vision > > was > > not unlike the ones projected by Saint-Simon and > > Comte, > > and going farther back into the past, Plato. > > Peiople have sometimes compared LP to modernist > architecture, Le Corbusier, Bauhaus, etc., which had > similar elitist socialist ideologises.
And in fact there was a connection between the Vienna Circle and the Bauhaus. Philipp Frank's brother, Josef, was an architect who taught at the Bauhaus. And various members of the Vienna Circle, including Neurath, Philpp Frank, Carnap etc. sometimes would give lectures at the Bauhaus. Both the Bauhaus and most of the Vienna Circle shared affiliations with the German and Austrian SPDs. > There is > osmething to that. But there is also the point that > for LP all motivation is emotional and not cognitive > -- that's true for the wise elite as well as for the > masses. And it's not a criticism of a motivation to > say it is emotive, just an analytical truth, according > to the LPs. A very Humean position. And Hume had likewise advocated a similar elitism. > > > > However, > > it still seems some distance from Georges Sorel's > > who > > seems to have been much more of an irrationalist > > than > > those in the positivist tradition. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jim Farmelant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Dec 5, 2005 1:48 PM > > > To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > > Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Critique of > > pragmatism > > > > > > James was avowedly anti-imperialist. He, > > > like Mark Twain, was involved in the > > Anti-Imperialist > > > League which opposed the suppression of > > > the Filipino nationalists after the > > Spanish-American > > > War. > > > > > > ............. > > > > > > Also the young Max Eastman who, like Hook, had > > been > > > a student of Dewey at Columbia. > > > ........ > > > > > > Well, some logical positivists such as the younger > > > Carnap and the young Ayer did embrace > > phenomenalism > > > as a linguistic, rather than a metaphysical > > thesis. > > > For them that meant that it should be in theory > > > possible to reduce or translate sentences about > > one kind of thing > > > (in particular, material objects) to sentences > > about sense-data. > > > Carnap was later convinced by Neurath that a > > physicalist > > > approach would be more fruitful and Ayer became > > > convinced that it was not possible to carry out > > > the phenomenalist reduction. BYW Ayer was not so > > > shy about linking the sort of phenomenalism that > > he > > > had embraced in LTL with Berekely's subjective > > idealism. > > > And in his memoir, *Part of My Life*, he readily > > conceded > > > that Lenin had been correct in perceiving a > > connection > > > between Mach & Avenarius's empirio-criticism and > > > Berkeley's idealism. > > > > > > ......................... > > > > > > Neurath, and even Carnap, very much accepted > > > historical materialism while rejecting diamat. > > > > > > >............ > > > > > > Well I don't know. I think that for the logical > > positivists, > > > diamat being seen as metaphysical rather than as > > scientific, > > > would have been regarded as a serious defect. I > > don't > > > get the impression that most of the logical > > positivists > > > would have taken a Sorelian approach to this > > > issue, although the Sorelian take on the role > > > of myth in politics would not have been > > inconsistent > > > with their general philosophical position as such. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ralph Dumain's The Autodidact Project > > > http://www.autodidactproject.org > > > The C.L.R. James Institute > > > http://www.clrjamesinstitute.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > > > > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
