Classes at all times rise and fall and develop - emerge, on the basis of changes in the material power of production and how this material power is organized as a combination of human labor + tools, instruments, machines + energy source. ^^^^ CB: So why do you refer to landed _property_ as the basis of feudalism ? MP: Honest question Simple, because it was. The primary form of wealth is land . . . hence landed property relations. Machinery and there were machines under feudalism, was not the primary form of wealth. Species currency was not the primary form of wealth during the epoch of feudalism. Hey . . . I thought you were a lawyer and had several degrees. The primarily form of wealth during the epoch of the bourgeois mode of production is the paper form of capital and today super symbolic expressions of wealth stored in machines as data. The wealth of the bourgeoisie is not in the form of paper money in banks or gold ownership. ^^^^^ CB: So was feudalism the expression of landed _property_ or was it the expression of feudal means of production and technology ? MP: There you go with the lawyer logic. Means of production can be described based on the combination of human labor + machinery, tools and instruments + energy source. Machines, tools and instruments existed during the landed property relations called feudalism. Your question makes no sense and is bogus. Feudalism means the political form of rule associated with the fief during the epoch of landed property relations. Mr. Lawyer . . . with all the degree . . . does not the word feudalism comes from the word and concept of fief describing a political form of rule? Let me guess. The teacher left this out of the course in which you got your degrees you are so prone to boost about. CB: "Value" relations are property relations.
MP: Poor me with my Toffler ideology. I always though that the value relations were relations of product exchange involving what many Marxist call abstract labor or the exchange of labor equivalents. These products are exchanged on the basis of value - the congealed abstract labor in them and acquire the form of commodities. Poor me. Today I discover that "Value" relations are property relations. What is value? Value means labor exchange or for some folks, human labor in the abstract or abstract human labor as it exists in relationship to products, that acquire a commodity form. The law of value or the value relationship (a relationship expresses some law system) are not a property relations with property being defined as ownership rights over the means of production. Means of production are not in themselves value. The value relations is a relations involving congealed human labor or human labor in the abstract, embodied in a social act. This social act is not the property rights. You pose the issue incorrectly in my estimate, Mr. Lawyer. The value relations is connected with and understood as the essence of commodity production or exchange of products that acquire a commodity form. The words "value relations" means the exchange of human labor and this relations is not property but exchange of labor equivalents. "Value" relations are property relations." Really. Money expresses value. Expended labor time is the basis of exchange and it is represented by money. Since production today is increasingly carried on with decreasing amounts of human labor congealed in the products of exchange - commodities, or by advanced robotics and an emerging new technological regime, such production cannot for long be distributed by money. We have entered an era of acute crisis of the bourgeois mode of production. Question 1 : CB: So was feudalism the expression of landed _property_ or was it the Expression of feudal means of production and technology? What a bizarre question. The landed property relations means relations where the primary form of wealth is land rather than movable property as in gold. During this period to time where the primary form of wealth was land . . . wait a minute I answered this already Mr. Lawyer. Wow . . . and you have seeral degrees to boot. "Value" relations are property relations." Melvin P. _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list [email protected] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
