Van Heijenoort critiques Engels on imaginary numbers , I believe. http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism-thaxis/2005-February/018295.html
Marxism-Thaxis] Novack vs. Van Heijenoort on dialectics, 1943 Steve Gabosch bebop101 at comcast.net Fri Feb 25 19:01:33 MST 2005 Previous message: [Marxism-Thaxis] Novack vs. Van Heijenoort on dialectics, 1943 Next message: [Marxism-Thaxis] Novack vs. Van Heijenoort on dialectics, 1943 Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, that would be an interesting discussion to read. Where does one get SWP internal bulletins from the 1940's? I notice, Ralph, the occasional disparaging remark about Engels and the one below about Novack. I think I can make a case that while one may disagree with their views, their writings and thinking emanated from world views that were based on a scientific methodology, not on idiosyncratic intellectual inventions, muddled thinking, or just plain subjectivism. I think I can also make a case, even more controversial for some, that Marx and Engels were consistent, and, furthermore, Novack was reasonably consistent with them. That last one is especially controversial, of course. And as for the problem of "dialectical laws," I think Novack explains or defends the concept pretty well, along the lines that Engels used it. But of course, these are just opinions subject to critique and debate, which I hope we get some time down the road to explore some. I am sure I would learn from that. But not right now! Gotta get back to these other matters .... And thanks again for the rich supply of references and ideas and urls you have been offering, very much appreciated. Best, ~ Steve At 03:33 AM 2/25/2005 -0500, Ralph Dumain wrote: >I have stumbled onto some long sought material in my files, i.e. my notes >from 1991 on debates on dialectics conducted under pseudonyms, featuring >William Warde (George Novack) and Marc Loris (Jean Van Heijenoort), with >interventions by John G. Wright, J. Weber, George Sanders, Irwin Hyper & >Buddy Lens, and Ben Maxson. (I haven't checked my pseudonyms lists to >determine who's who). It turns out that I even have a text file of my >notes. I can't remember whether these e-mail lists allow attachments, but >one way or another I could easily send my file. The question is: would >anyone be able to understand my fragmentary notes? > >I had assumed that this material came from the very rare international >bulletins of the 4th International (which I believe I also checked), but >rather it's in the relatively (and I mean only relatively) more accessible >SWP internal bulletins. I guess I was too cheap to have all this stuff >photocopied when I researched it in New York 14 years ago. > >I was hoping to put the articles by Van Heijenoort online, but >unfortunately I only have a photocopy of a relatively trivial piece: > >SURPLUS VALUE AND EXCHANGE OF EQUIVALENTS (NOTE ON AN EXAMPLE IN WILLIAM >F. WARDE'S INTRODUCTION TO THE LOGIC OF MARXISM) by Marc Loris, SWP >Internal Bulletin, vol. V, no. 5, Dec. 1943: p. 31-35. > >I also have a photocopy of two pages by George Sanders on the dialectics >of tonality in music (Vol. V, no. 4, Oct. 1943: p. 14-15). Why I don't know. > >All of this discussion was a reaction to Novack's (Warde) DIALECTICAL >MATERIALISM, OUTLINE COURSE #3 (National Education Dept., SWP (1943), 52 pp.). > >The debates that matter are found in: > >SWP. Internal Bulletin, >vol. 5, no. 2, July 1943. 28 pp. >Vol. V, no. 4, Oct. 1943. 15 pp. >vol. V, no. 5, Dec. 1943. 35 pp. > >I don't have the wherewithal at the moment to track down this material >(the repositories I know are in New York or Berkeley/S.F.) and get it >photocopied, but if anyone else is game, let me know. > >My general evaluation is that Van Heijenoort had something important to >say about the distinction and evaluation of the notions of subjective and >objective dialectics, and Novack had his finger up his ass as usual. The >other commentators took sides and there may be something interested in >whoever backed Van Heijenoort. > >Van Hiejenoort used antoerh pseudonym, Gerland, and there's at least one >relevant article in THE NEW INTERNATIONAL. It may have been "The Algebra >of Revolution". I thought I had a photocopy somewhere, but damned if I >know where. > >Anyway, this is Van Heijenoort's prehistory, which is why I would like to >find the material. As Irving Anellis reports, Van Heijenoort does not >report discussing dialectics in WITH TROTSKY IN EXILE, probably because >Trotsky was such a dogmatic prick Van Heijenoort didn't want to make >trouble for himself. > >I'll upload my notes if anyone's interested. This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
