Quantifying history and historical progression, all ways get me in trouble,  
yet this stops no one from quantifying history. I believe that the American  
state, as we know it is going to change at lightening speed, after a change in  
the property relations. 

What happens in America is very important to world history. The state  can 
fall relatively peaceful without the outbreak of Civil War as was the case  
after the Lenin group seized power. However, the Bolshevik seizure of power was 
 
relatively peaceful. The fight came afterwards as the result of invasion.  
Invasion will not be one of our worry's. What happened with the fall of Soviet  
Power - 1989, outlines our future more or less. 

Marx wrote that the proletariat would have to fight for 50, 100, 200  years 
of wars and international wars not just to achieve power, but to make  itself 
fit for the exercise of power. I am not sure if it is understood that it  will 
take perhaps another 100 - 200 years, just to completely leave the old  
ritualized agrarian/feudal culture of Russia. One hundred years is nothing. 
Very  
much of China today is still feudal in its real actual and ritual behavior.  
Hundreds of millions of peasants, with an unbroken historical and written  
culture is mind boggling. Hence the stability of the system no matter what  
direction it lurches in. 
 
I am laughing because Mao had to tell everyone Marxism meant "it is right  to 
rebel." This of course does no excuse or justify state policy one way or  
another. 
 
There is a tendency to forget that the October Revolution was bound up with  
the transition from agrarian social and economic relations to industrial 
social  and economic relations. Defining the October Revolution of 1917 as a 
revolution  - transition, from capitalism to socialism is in my estimate 
extremely  
inaccurate and run against all the statistical data on the Russian - Soviet  
population from the early 1900's to 1950. One cannot build socialism in a  
country of peasants, or rather the socialism one builds, cannot overcome the 
law  
of value as commodity exchange. One can restrict the law of value in 
everything  fundamental to the industrial infrastructure. What made the Soviet 
Union  
socialist rather than capitalism was its industrial infrastructure. The fact of 
 the matter is that no one owned any aspect of heavy industry or light 
industry  before the spread of the second economy unleashed by Nikita. When 
"the 
state"  owns all the capital and establishes institutions that deploys labor 
based on a  plan and not anarchy of production that is socialism. 
 
There of course are zero peasants in America. In Russia, so-called  socialist 
accumulation, a hideous term that tells no one anything, was carved  out of 
the backs of the peasants. What actually took place was the thousand year  old 
battle of the towns - city-states, demand for cheap food stuff running into  
the culture and ritualized social life of the small producers. I have a bias 
for  Polany on this issue. 
 
At any rate, is not the average Russian living on about 3 bucks a day  today? 
 
I do agree that the process of the withering away of certain features of  the 
state began with the class rule of the proletariat in the Soviet Union. And  
that Russia was no basket case in the 1960's, 1970's or 1980's. Don't quote me 
 on it but I believe the 1980's rate of growth hovered around 3% of GDP with 
a  lack of statistics in the second economy. 
 
 
WL. 
 
 
 
 
 
I agree that these are the classical Marxist-Leninist theory, definitions,  
schema and order of the process, but I'm thinking that actuality, actual  
history, the concrete truth of this may not "go down" in as linear a fashion, 
as  
the a,b,c,1,2,3 of the theory. This would be applying Marx and Engels other  
warning against "cookbooks" and predictions about socialism and communism to  
their own sketch of how the state whithers away.  So, the process of  
whithering 
away may in actuality be a zig-zag , one step whither, one step  unwhither of 
the straightline of the abstract classical formulations For  example, the 
Soviet state was a multinational state. The Russian state does not  encompass 
all 
of the former Soviet territory. This might be seen as an early  aspect of the 
total whithering away of the state there. Also, notice that there  was 
relatively little bloodshed. The Soviet state did not go down fighting, not  
with a 
bang but a whimper ( as that Commie T.S. Eliot put it) Also, Soviet  society 
was substantially without class antagonisms. This is one of the most  important 
theoretical and praise of the Soviet Union points. The peaceful end of  the 
multi-national state is an indicator of the lack of class antagonisms  existing 
in the Soviet Union. 

Also, notice that the implication of my  use of "whithering away of the state 
" is that some of what is left in Russia is  _communism_ not socialism. The 
whithering away of the state ushers in communism.  

Obviously, since capitalist imperialist states still exist in the world  and 
the Russian _state_ has nuclear weapons, the state has not totally whithered  
away. 

So, it would be a partial and harbinger whithering away that we  see.

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