On 9/22/09, andie nachgeborenen No state exists anymore that even aspires to a nonmarket system, and none is likely to emerge.
^^^^^^^^ CB: I know most American lefties consider the Chinese CP to be liars, but I'm not one of them. They do claim to be aspiring to a non-market system. Also, there is , of course, Cuba. And the Bolivarians explicitly claim to aspire to socialism. On China, as I've said many times, China was not a capitalist country at its revolution. By socalled stagist theory, which is only wrong for Trostskyists and some others, not classical Marxists like Marx and Engels, also people like Ted Winslow of lbo-talk and Pen-L, capitalism is a necessary step before socialism. This is pragmatically true given that imperialism with super superior weaponry based on its industrial might over pre-capitalist societies like China or even USSR, will not permit socialist peaceful coexistence and development. This is the lesson of the last 90 years. In sum, I disagree that Chinese CP's claims to still aspire to socialism can be dismissed. > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Ralph Dumain <rdum...@autodidactproject.org> wrote: > > > From: Ralph Dumain <rdum...@autodidactproject.org> > > Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Paul Cockshott on Leonid Kantorovich and the > > socialist calculation debate revisited > > To: "Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx and > > the thinkers he inspired" <marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu>, > > marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > Cc: "marxist philosophy" <marxistphiloso...@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:39 AM > > Not that I endorse an exclusive > > concentration on economic > > calculation, but Cockschott's overall perspective can be > > found here: > > > > 21st Century Marxism > > http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/21stCenturyMarxism.htm > > > > At 11:02 AM 9/22/2009, Ralph Dumain wrote: > > >Some time ago Jim gave us this reference. If you are > > interested in > > >Cockshott's analysis of the socialist calculation > > debate, high-tech > > >socialism & e-democracy more generally, see his web > > site: > > > > > >http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ > > > > > > > > >At 09:37 PM 5/24/2009, Jim Farmelant wrote: > > > > > > >Paul Cockshott on how the Soviet economist and > > mathematician, > > > >Leonid Kantorovich (who was the only Soviet > > economist > > > >to ever win the Nobel Prize in economics), > > > >used his work on linear programming to > > > >answer the arguments of economists like Ludwig von > > Mises > > > >and Friedrich Hayek who argued that rational > > socialist > > > >economic planning was, even in theory, > > impossible. > > > > > > > >"Calculation in-Natura, from Neurath to > > Kantorovich" > > > > > > > >http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/standalonearticle.pdf > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > >Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > >To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > >http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
