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Looks like Jeff forwarded some of these e-mails but not the longer response I wrote. If Louis does not want Tony on the list, Tony is always welcome to e-mail me in private to have a longer discussion. Jeff is not. I'm not sure why he spent space explaining his feelings about Atzmon given that I did not take issue with that. He appears to believe that the gist of my comments are for his writings about Atzmon, but I could be wrong. Saying that the portrayal of Palestine activism as an internal Jewish community issue is most certainly NOT an Atzmon trope (or if it is, it is not what makes Atzmon problematic). It is a simple matter of rejecting racism, just as we should not see black rights as an internal matter for white people to discuss. For TG to suggest this is an anti-Jewish trope validates my concerns about ethnocentrism. His comments suggesting I agree with anti-Ziganism are false and slanderous, given the time I have spent in Hungary working on behalf of the Roma community. I was very clear that I think the NK made a lapse in judgment about lending any sympathy to Jobbik -- so why is TG suggesting otherwise? The last few paragraphs about "privilege" are contradictory indicate that he does not have any meaningful conception of what privileging a community's voice means. Indeed he seems to have trouble understanding the concern in the first paragraph as well. This kind of politics is highly problematic. It's also quite scandalous that he is saying he doesn't know what happened at Stanford given that I saw him appear on the page along with a bunch of liberal Zionists justifying what happened. On Wednesday, July 13, 2016, Jeff via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > From: Tony Greenstein <tonygreenstein...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 04:41:50 +0100 > Subject: [Marxism] Israel - world's most racist state? > > I find this kind of discussion list antiquated since it is difficult to > reply or respond. I also have little time since organising against the > real witch hunters in the British labour party, from which I am suspended > for 'anti-Semitism' is taking most of my time. > Amith accuses me of 'racist privileging of Jewish voices like his own.' > whatever that means. > > Amith's accusations are absurd. I did indeed wage a campaign against > Atzmon, who is a virulent anti-Semite (no not a nut job, a typically > chauvinist way of writing someone off). It was at a time when the SWP was > supporting him. contrary to Amith's lies I didn't do so from a Jewish > perspective but from a Palestinian one viz that Atzmon was endangering the > Palestine solidarity movement and making it easier for the Zionists to > attack it. After some time, various Palestinian figures of note, like Ali > Abunimah and Omar Barghouti issued a statement denouncing Atzmon's > anti-Semitism, which was also Zionist in its political stance e.g. > criticising BDS. It's no accident that Atzmon has been gleeful at the > Israeli attacks on Omar Barghouti. If Amith hasn't read what he says then > maybe he should before commenting on things he knows nothing about. The > fact is that there was a time when Atzmon had considerable support. > > It is a lie to say that I have said or suggested that I have 'used > ethnocentric rhetoric in other writings portraying the Palestinian struggle > as an internal Jewish community issue'. This is an Atzmon trope. There is > no truth in it and it would suggest that Amith is accepting part of > Atzmon's anti-Semitic rhetoric whilst distancing himself from the man > himself. > > I criticised those who lent Atzmon support in e.g. the blurb of his book > 'Wandering Who' such as Richard Falk. I didn't accuse him of anti-Semitism > but naivety. Counterpunch is a different matter. It has given > considerable space to anti-Semites and indeed fascists like israel Shamir. > > I know little of the Stanford incident but I do know that Alison Weir has > appeared on platforms with white supremacists and believe that the latter > have something to offer the Palestine solidarity movement. In this I > wholeheartedly support JVP in their opposition to her and her ilk because > they know that genuine anti-Semitism is something that the Zionists welcome > and that it is destructive of the PS movement. > > Yes I criticised Neturei Karta for demonstration in support of the > Hungarian Jobbik party, which is a fascist party as well as being > anti-Semitic and of course anti-Gypsy. Perhaps Amith has problems with > that? > > Far from me 'privileging' Jews I do the opposite. I say that Jewish people > have a duty to speak out against Zionism since the latter claims to speak > on their behalf. > > The fight against Zionism is an anti-racist one. Alliances with racists, > white supremacists, fascists or those who employ racist tropes or arguments > does a disservice to the Palestinians. if you don't understand that then > keep away from the Palestine solidarity movement as you can only do us > damage. At a time when increasing numbers of young Jews are coming out > against Israel and Zionism we don't want sympathisers with the Alison Weirs > and other reactionary supporters of US imperialism to put them off. > > Tony Greenstein > > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com > -- - Amith _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
