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Patrick, thank you for replying. I'm curious, especially because you are from a major "extractivist" nation, S. Africa, what the alternatives are? For any transformation, energy specifically, but technological/industry more generally, requires some forms of pulling minerals out of the grown. This is true for solar cell technology as it is for electrical vehicles or mass transportation. I've never read a serious alternative to this except Green de-development (and thus anti-Marxist) perspectives on this. Are there any sources you can refer me to that deals with this issue? On the issue of Venezuela...I raised this issue of their tar-sands development here once, and other places, years ago when Chavez had announced an expansion of investment in the Orinco Oil belt. I know a young organizer who spent 6 months there back in 2010 or so. He said it was an insane ecological disaster...extracting oil from the Venezuela's tar sands (the largest in the world and what Chavez and PDVSA were claiming makes Venezuela the owner of the largest oil reserves in the world) is particularly bad, far worse than it is in Alberta, because of it's tropical and semi-tropical location. Of course I defend the right the government to develop this oil but always wondered if in the long run...it's a disaster for the country and the planet if it all gets developed. Thinking out loudly, David _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com