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Maybe John would like to respond to Tuck’s histroically-based argument that Brexit responds to working-class interests. > On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:18 PM, John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I may be mistaken, but I do believe that Marx died well before the EU came > into existence. > > Of course, this is a snarky way of saying that he was writing about an > entirely different period in the development of capitalism. The EU is a > symptom of the problem; it's not the problem itself. > > Maybe Carl would like to respond to the main points of my comments instead of > citing an article from "Dissent" (from what?) magazine. > > John Reimann > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galli...@illinois.edu > <mailto:galli...@illinois.edu>> wrote: > A weel-known socialist might disagree with you. Marx might think it > worthwhile to be free of EU ‘constitutionalism’: > > https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit > <https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit> > > —CGE > > >> On Jul 11, 2018, at 3:57 PM, John Reimann via Marxism >> <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu <mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>> wrote: >> "What we now need is a socialist Brexit." Yes, and what the jumper from the >> Golden Gate Bridge needed was the suspension of the laws of gravity. >> Unfortunately for both the jumper and the "Lexiteers", I'm not sure which >> is less likely. >> >> A lot of things can be said and a lot denied about the Brexit vote. One >> thing that cannot be denied with any degree of truth is that it was a right >> wing, anti-immigrant vote. Sure, some - maybe most - of the workers who >> voted for Brexit may not have been chauvinists, but every single interview >> I saw of Brexit voters, including some pro-Brexit interviews, showed the >> workers as saying that first and foremost the reason they voted for Brexit >> was immigration. >> >> The entire Brexit vote was predicated on the idea that workers would be >> better off under the rule of British capitalism vs. European capitalism. >> This means that British workers should ally themselves with with the >> British capitalist class. Inevitably, this means at the cost of allying >> itself with the European working class. >> >> Unfortunately, the anti-Brexit campaign limited itself in this sense: It >> wasn't enough to campaign *against *Brexit; it was and is necessary to link >> that with a campaign *for* something. That "something" was and is >> pan-European working class unity and a pan-European campaign for a >> region-wide minimum wage, region-wide minimum social safety net, etc. The >> Brexit vote makes that all the more difficult. >> >> As far as the issue of the EU enforcing austerity: We should remember >> Marx's comment that law represents established fact. So do the EU mandates, >> and the established fact is that EU mandates or not, global capitalism >> requires national austerity. Show me one single capitalist government - EU >> member or not - that is not enforcing this sort of austerity. >> >> The "left" can comfort itself with "Lexit" all it likes. It remains nothing >> but a nice fairy tale which was and is preordained to come into existence >> as much as is the tale of Cinderella. >> >> John Reimann >> _________________________________________________________ >> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm >> <http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm> >> Set your options at: >> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/galliher%40illinois.edu >> <http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/galliher%40illinois.edu> > > > > > -- > “In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” from "The Black Jacobins" by > C. L. R. James > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com <http://oaklandsocialist.com/> > also on Facebook _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
