Look, Kosslof, if you think the Montoneros were in any way on Perón´s "left", as most standard "leftists" in Arg believe, then you are so far away from Marxism that, as I guessed, it is pointless to discuss any of these issues with you.
2009/9/5 Leonardo Kosloff <holmof...@hotmail.com>: > > Nestor: I agree with all that Lueko has answered you > > Re: what is all that that he ‘has answered’?, he asked me a question, if I > have anything to add to the little detail that the Chinese bureaucracy > personifies the interests of capital, I assume he then acknowledges that > that’s in fact the role of the CCP, am I right Lueko?, > > Nestor: Leonardo you ignorant > > Re: Nestor shows the level of his dialectical materialism once more and > addresses me personally –“puteando”: throwing insult- before replying to my > claim made two posts ago: that his comments so far implicitly take the > consciousness of commodity producers as determined outside the sphere of > capital accumulation, that is, as abstract consciousness,… do any of the > Nestor’s posts mention value, relative surplus-value, methods of production > in China?, do any of Nestor’s posts talk about how workers are separated from > the conditions of production, capital is accumulated, in China? Not so far. > Hence, unless we understand capital in the same terms of bourgeois political > economy, the determinations of consciousness have not been addressed by > Nestor -lest you think Marx wrote Capital because he was masturbating-, > instead he proceeds to falsely S.Artesian's claim, which is the one my > intervention started with: him saying the CCP ‘uses’ capitalism to build > socialism, this was Nestor a few posts ago: > > 'It is one thing > to _use_ capitalism, and a different one to _bow_ to capitalism. The > whole thing when it comes to the China debate is whether the Chinese > leadership _uses_ capitalism or _bows_ to it, which implies bowing to > imperialism. China is not doing the latter. Doing the former, of > course, entails the most serious risks. ' > > Nestor: I would add a single question: > > Re: As for the <<three>> questions below… > > Nestor: (a) what were the interests and desires > of Arg workers that Peron, as you bluntly and automatically parrot, > betrayed? > > Re: Well Nestor, this might just be me masturbating here, but as I take it > from the Communist Manifesto, the interests of Argentinean workers run > parallel to the interests of workers around the world: the overthrow of > capital. Now I suppose you mean specific issues, how Peron exterminated > Montoneros, how he was a closet fascist, how he sold out YPF, how he opened > the gates to the dictatorship which came after his terms? But may I kindly > request you answer my question first, because I think the objective issues > (capitalism, for only then can we begin to clear up how these interests have > been betrayed) are a tad more important than ideological polemic, again, you > wouldn’t want anyone to think that you’re just hiding behind your dialectical > mantle in order to ensconce your evasion. > > Nestor: And (b) who are you, what is the stool you stand up on to define what > were, are or will ever be the interests of Arg workers? > > Re: See above > > Nestor: That is, who do you think you are, Leonardo? > > Re: That’s a nice question to masturbate over, let me do that and get back > atcha. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. > http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 > ________________________________________________ > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/nmgoro%40gmail.com > -- Néstor Gorojovsky El texto principal de este correo puede no ser de mi autoría ________________________________________________ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
