Comrades,
Spetznaz wrote:-
> Spetsnaz:
> I also agree with Alan and Klo. I support both the
> Chinese government's actions at Tiananmen Square and
> Yanayev's 1990 coup against Gorbachev.
Me too. While the poor farmers may have begun protesting, inspired by the
students' protest movement, the protests were led by the students who were
clearly demanding Western-style bourgeois democracy reforms and who were
backed by Western and pro-Western imperialist and capitalist forces outside
China.
While in Canada in 1992, I met a young woman who had been a protester in
Tianannmen and I thought she was a Canadian-Chinese, since she seemed so
Westernised and her views with regards welfare recipients was just like that
of any right-winger -- ie. "get trained and get a job" when Canada and the
United States were in the depths of an economic recession and there simply
were no jobs.
Furthermore, some of the student protesters who fled to the west have since
got good jobs and we don't hear much of them now.
>
> The imperialists are willing to do anything to
> undermine socialism, ranging from "contra" style
> guerrilla movements to springing up opposition
> movements disguised as a geniune workers movement.
>
> The perfect example is Solidarity. In the 80's they
> said wanted power to the workers, yet when they were
> voted into power all they ever did was build churches.
> Now the Polish people have elected a former Communist
> party member as president.
Indeed, so true.
>
> Even in Romania, in 1989 you saw how the Romanian
> people were chearing over the downfall of Nicolae
> Ceausescu. However now, their country is total shit
> and they want a return to socialism.
And I recall seeing photos in the bourgeois media of Ceausescu's face after
he was shot dead and even my late father who was virulently anti-communist
felt the media had gone too far in its insensitivity to a dead person.
>
> I wonder how long it will take before the Serbian
> people admit they made a terrible mistake by deposing
> Milsovich.
And I remember CNN covering protests by opposition parties in Serbia when
they were still small but CNN made them look as if they were about to outs
Milosovich. I could see that the many opposition were supporters appeared to
be petty bourgeois and bohemian types.
I don't expect it will be too long before the Serbian people realise their
mistake. Problem though is that it will be much more difficult to revert
back to the situation under Milosovich.
> Like I said, the imperialists will stop at nothing to
> destory workers states, and we have to be willinging
> to use force against these elements.
They will stop at nothing to destroy any state which stands in their way and
that includes Iraq, Lybia, Cuba, North Korea and other countries or leaders
who impede the Western imperialist's aims of dominating the whole world.
They will use all sorts of tactics, whether military, the media, economic,
cultural or whatever to undermine nations.
> Sadly, its very easy for American capitalism to
> "bribe" young people in socialist nations with all the
> luxuries of the West. I'm a teenager myself, and I see
> first hand how stupid my peers are.
> "how can you like communism? We have MTV!"
> "its so cold in Russia, your privates fall off"
> "but theres no cute guys like N'Sync in Russia"
>
> These are actual arguments people at my school tell me
> all the time. Gees, I could give a much better defense
> of capitalism.
>
> Anyways, during my trips to Russia, I've seen how
> Russian teenagers are being "americanized". Like young
> Americans, they're more concerned with MTV than all
> the poverty in their country.
HA! I see too much of that here in Malaysia, especially among young, middle
class types and even working class youths who get caught up with Western
consumer culture and its associated fashions -- a modern opium of the masses
and a strong opium too.
I must commend you for seeing through this deception while in your teens.
When I was a teen, I was caught up in it all and was very pro-American back
then.
One problem though is that while young communists like Spetznaz, who are
exposed to this type of culture in the West can see through it, youths in
the former Soviet Union who were generally isolated from it, fall for this
culture more easily, like the natives of North America who died when
contracted the diseases suffered by the white settlers, since they had no
immunity to them.
While I don't advocate deliberately exposing youth in socialist society to
this type of culture so that they develop an immunity to it (since most
youths in the west fall for it anyway), youth in socialist society should be
informed about this type of culture and clearly shown its true commercial
and exploitative nature so that they won't be deceived by its pretenses to
"freedom."
> Sadly, it seems only when the true horrors of
> capitalism becomes clear that these people realize
> they were wrong, and very often its too late by then.
Well it will require such a shock to bring them to their senses but as you
say, it will be too late and it will take a lot of fresh effort and
sacrifice to get back to socialism.
> While the older people in Russia remember the
> oppression of the czars and nazi atrocities, but the
> younger people didn't experianced anything like that.
> So that was a big reason why it was easier for the
> West to try and corrupt the youth.
This is something which worries me about future socialist societies when
imperialism still survives in some parts of the world or even if socialism
existed throughout the world: -- IE. that as the generation who made the
revolution and established socialism dies off, succeeding generations who
never experienced the hardships their parents or grandparents experienced
will tend to fall for enticements of the imperialists or remanants of the
bourgeoise within their midst.
In the case of the former Soviet Union and in the countries of Eastern
Europe, the arms race, the need to industrialise the country rapidly as well
as the years under revisionist rule deprived people of consumer goods and
when especially young people there saw all the consumer "goodies" easily
available in the West and even in developing
countries, they were deluded by it.
During the Gorbachev era, I knew the Novosti Information Agency bureau chief
in Kuala Lumpur and whenever his daughter came down for a visit, she would
go shopping for cloths and she told me that there were no good dresses
available in the Soviet Union.
At that time too, Novosti's office had just a teleprinter to receive the the
news bulletins and typewriters to type out the press releases which they
distributed and it seemed so "primitive" compared to most offices in
Malaysia which had PCs and word processors.
They subsequently bought PCs and typesetting equipment and a telegraphic
interface device which a company I then worked for sold them to capture the
incoming telegraphic signals and feed them into a PC which stored them for
further editing.
Of course, they were among the upper stratum of Soviet society and lived in
relative luxury despite most Soviet citizens suffering hardship and
deprivation, especially in those days of glasnost and perestroika.
I was told that in the early days of glasnost and perestroika, Soviet people
had much money but nothing to spend it on but later on the bourgeois media
were reporting that there were many goods in Soviet stores but Soviet people
had no money to buy them.
At that time, the Soviet magazine Sputnik ran strories glorifying free
enterprise, private entrepreneurship, bohemian lyfestyles, market economy
and it criticised Stalin and the Soviet administration for being "command
and administer" system from the top down.
Future socialist societies will have to find ways to adequately address
demand for quality consumer goods -- especially labour-saving consumer goods
like washing machines, cars, fridges, personal computers, telephones and so
on, since a scarcity of these products and services could well allow the
imperialists to temp and delude especially the younger generations who have
no experience of the hardships their parents suffered. Most of these are not
luxuries but basic consumer neccesities.
If this is not possible, an interim alternative might be to have an abundant
number of public laundromats, an excellent, extensive and highly affordable
public transit system, ample computer and Internet access bureau (like
public libraries) and ample public phone booths and I understand that some
of these, especially an excellent public transport system existed in the
Soviet Union but I also understand that the telecommunications system was
inadequate.
However, unlike the imperialists and capitalists, under socialism, there
will be no consumer society in which advertising and peer pressure are
brought to bear on people having to wear this or that latest fashion, newest
car or most powerful personal computer.
Fraternally
Charles
>
>
>
>
> --- Alan Dover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Klo comrade,
> >
> > I am unable at the moment to extend greater support
> > to your argument but I
> > wish to register my support for the correctness of
> > your stance on this
> > question of the state and transition, as you
> > indicated in the excerpt below.
> >
> > fraternally Alan.
> >
> > >
> > > My reply,
> > > That's correct and the Soviet Union was still a
> > socialist state, as I
> > > have said on numerous occasions. It did not cease
> > being so until Aug.
> > > 1991 and the subsequent "giving away" of the means
> > of Prod. Dist. and
> > > Ex. at bargain basement prices.
> > >
> > >
> > > But was he a communist??
> > >
> > > My reply,
> > > Just because Khrushchov was a traitorous
> > revisionist does not mean the
> > > Soviet Union ceased being a socialist nation. The
> > primary factor is not
> > > what Nikita was but what the Soviet Union was.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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