Hi Mark, well, FYI, there are a LOT more than 5 "internationals, so ya' know. Irrelevant to anything substantial. What makes this statement important is that it is from the the "international" dominated by the PTS of Argentina, the largest self-proclaimed Trotskyist party in the world as I understand it and the leading force in the electoralist FIT there.
The position of the PTS/FT-CI parallels that of another international, the OCRFI, a grouping of Trotskyists in about 40 countries (including almost all of Francophone Africa) though in total not nearly the size of the PTS in Argentina even they were all in one large dance hall together. The PTS (supported by Left Voice here in the U.S.) has a dual-defeatist position (like the OCRFI). IMO, this position is a cowardly position to take and is basically hand wringing. I do know that the OCRFI (they have about 1200 members in France so it's not some small internet based sect like many) mostly condemns Russia as having started this war but that is as far as it goes. The other big international grouping is the LIT-CI or "International Workers League-FI" based in Brazil where they command the PSTUB and is the largest Trotskyist group there. The LIT-CI is the target of the FT-CI polemics. I've detested the dual-defeatist position as intellectually bankrupt because it doesn't start from the position of the class struggle in particular countries, most notably ignoring issues of self-determination and starting, only , from who supports whom and denying the right of oppressed people to struggle against oppression. It is true, that the demand, as it arose after August of 1914, WAS a clear cut form of Imperialist war, but that didn't mean we ignored what happened on the ground. Lenin commented on "annexations" by stronger Imperialist countries against weaker ones and Trotsky wrote extensively on Yugoslavia. *Hundreds* of social democratic leaders opined on all these situations in WW1 and clearly the application of "dual-defeatism" was appropriate in this case. It was less appropriate in WWII but that is another discussion. IMO, *ignoring* the stance of the organized working class and masses of people in any country being invaded, means one are locking away oneself in a tomb of political correctness and throwing away the key, with nothing to say to the working class of that country OR the working class of the invading nations. No one will listen to you and no group will EVER sink roots into the working classes of those nations involved. A dual-defeatist position in the modern context means one wants to sine into sectarian irrelevancy. David -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#34116): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/34116 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/110146372/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
