On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 07:27 AM, Mark Baugher wrote: > > Marv, I think you're conflating the "Right of Nations to Self > Determination" with the "Theory of Permanent Revolution." The working > people of an occupied (albeit capitalist) country will likely be worse off > under occupation and will fight the occupation or invasion > shoulder-to-shoulder with other sectors of the society
Mark, re National Self Determination: Would you not agree that resistance to foreign occupation and for independent statehood and lesser forms of national autonomy are universally accepted principles originating in liberal democracy but that the Bolsheviks and other Marxists (including Trotsky, in relation to Ukraine) also insisted that the class character of the movement and leadership were decisive and had to be taken into account in evaluating such struggles? Class differences often erupted into civil war between left and right within national movements against foreign invaders and imperialists, as for example in southern Europe, Asia and elsewhere during WW II. They are obscured today because there is no longer a left contesting for power in national movements, and working people are consequently led by and persuaded to sacrifice themselves by forces inimical to their class interests. Re; Permanent Revolution: Did not all revolutionary left tendencies declare their goal was socialist revolution and that participation in the national struggle inevitably led in that direction? The differences between them were ultimately tactical, over means not ends, over whether the revolution was a continuous process or unfolded in stages and the related question of whether enlisting the liberal wing of the bourgeoisie retarded or advanced that struggle. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#34596): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/34596 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/110506717/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
