There was recently on this forum, a long and interesting set of views on what the communist 'party' was, whether it was 'needed' or if it was redundant today, and several aspects that are difficult to summarise. But one was whether Marx and Engels and Lenin (we shall for the moment leave aside Stalin) had differing or similar views.
I interpreted one view as saying that Marx and Engels shared a view that equated 'the party' with 'the mass' of 'the class'. That seemed at first blush to be a reasonable view based on the late-in-his-life quotation that was cited from Engels, to defend this view/hypothesis. Thus - for my own part, I felt it needed deeper exploration - Hence: "Views of Marx and Engels on Revolutionary Organisations" 13 January 2026-> https://mlrg.online/history/views-of-marx-and-engels-on-revolutionary-organisations/ 1. Introduction This article examines the changing views of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels on a worker’s party over time. These changes did not get “dreamed up”, but naturally arose from the course of the proletarian movement. As Marx put it: “these (communist – ed) theoreticians … in the measure that history moves forward, and with it the struggle of the proletariat assumes clearer outlines, they no longer need to seek science in their minds; they have only to take note of what is happening before their eyes and to become its mouthpiece.” Karl Marx; “The Poverty of Philosophy”; Chapter 2.1: The Metaphysics of Political Economy (The Method) at: MIA The article is spurred by discussions on the Marx Mail forum list. Arguments were recently put there, suggesting that Lenin’s views on party contradicted those of Marx and Engels. Since Marx and Engels did not have one single party that they worked with through their activist lives, it is not possible to point to just a single text of theirs in this regard – not even the ‘Communist Manifesto” alone. The only viable alternative is to review their activist history over the years. As is well known, Lenin described a vanguard party concept which formed the policy of the Bolsheviks. Our views on this have been on record since 1973 (MLOB: “What is to be done now?” at MIA). While this is salted with 1970s-era revolutionary optimism, the paper in core stands the test of time. In reality the argument that there are major differences between Marx-Engels and Lenin upon the party, is not novel. This is forthrightly declared and enshrined in Encyclopedia Britannica as follows: “Marxism predicted a spontaneous revolution by the proletariat, but Leninism insisted on the need for leadership by a vanguard party of professional revolutionaries (such as Vladimir Lenin himself).” The Editors; “How does Marxism differ from Leninism?” accessed 25 December, 2025; at: Britainnica Attempts to divide Marx and Engels from each other are frequent and were discussed previously. But attempts to divide them both from Lenin are also frequent. Perhaps latching onto the enormous body of economic and historical materialist theory from Marx and Engels is more comfortable for some – than the insistent drive to organise in Lenin. For this article we will leave aside Stalin. This discussion is of course far from ‘academic’ in today’s USA or any of the world’s countries. In the USA, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) hope to revitalize, or ‘ginger up’ the Democratic Party (DP), rather than creating a party outside of the DP. Some voices however, attack the DP as irretrievably penetrated and owned by the capitalist class and call for a new Leninist-type party. We believe this to be correct. Meanwhile, there is no large, avowedly proletarian party in the USA. The world’s toilers are facing an enormous crisis, and no large Marxist-Leninist party exists in any country. A discussion on the party is over-due. The plan of this article To show there is no major difference in the views of Marx and Engels versus Lenin, on the question of the need for a party of professional revolutionaries – necessitates many lengthy citations. We cover the field in the following plan: First, we break down a frequently cited quotation from Engels used to support the old canard. Secondly, we make general remarks about the different paths Marx and Engels faced. Thirdly, we then mark a point in their path from where a clearly narrower path is taken. That break-point is the Paris Commune. Fourthly, we pass to briefly review historical time-lines and the party formations used by Marx and Lenin. Finally, we have a short conclusion..... " Hari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#40159): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/40159 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/117257520/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
