Michael Hoffman wrote: >>Your points will not be valid for very long at all. We're about to be hit by a tidal wave of MP3-capable CD players and related combinations of technologies and features. Mike Lastucka wrote: >Which is fine for people who like to cart around what I consider to be bulky >players. MD units for me are far more discrete, imho. What are you talking about? What are your unexamined assumptions? Have some vision, some imagination. Do I need to post a list of links to innovative new combinations of technology in the latest products? Evidently you need a concrete visual proof of the crossover that is happening between MD and MP3 features and behaviors, to let go of the cliche clouds of connotations of what "MD" is and what "MP3" is. http://www.musicmatch.com/download/radiomx_intro.htm ~~128 stereo Kbps (ATRAC3?) internet radio (I'm listening now). No interruptions, just brief station IDs, start of songs do a 1-second fade-in, can skip about 10 songs before you must wait or switch stations to skip some more songs. A hint of the future. I consider 128 Kbps stereo typical FM-quality. http://www.realnetworks.com/company/pressroom/pr/00/sony.html - "RealNetworks plans to integrate support for Sony music technologies into RealJukebox, including ATRAC3, its sound compression format, as well as OpenMG copyright protection technology, the Sony Memory Stick and its portable audio players such as "Memory Stick Walkman" and "VAIO Music Clip". This enhancement to RealJukebox is expected to ship in the Summer of 2000, and is to be designed for use with "OpenMG" on PCs to comply with SDMI (Secure Digital Music Initiative) requirements for copyright management. Both RealNetworks and Sony are active members of SDMI. RealNetworks also expects to provide integrated support for Sony's ATRAC3 codec technology, which will enable consumers to download and play ATRAC3-encoded music on PCs, as well as downloading such music to Sony's portable audio players packaged with OpenMG, like Memory Stick Walkman and VAIO Music Clip. Initially, RealNetworks and Sony plan to develop a version of RealJukebox for Windows 98 and 2000." Mini CD-R blanks ($0.68 US) http://www.yesbuy.net/cd-r-3--mini-cdr.html Mini CD-R blanks ($0.68 US) http://www.meritline.com/50pcsminicdr.html http://cdr4less.com/cgi-bin/smart_cart.cgi?keywords=mini%20cdr http://www.supermediastore.com/10pacmincdrb.html Mini-CD-RW: Mini CDRW blanks ($2 US, compare to regular CDRW blanks) http://cdr4less.com/cgi-bin/smart_cart.cgi?keywords=cd-rw - Not compatible with Sony Mavica CD1000 Camera. Fully ReWritable up to 1,000 times -- Silver top Mini CD-RW, in spindles (cases available separately), holds 21 minutes audio [CDDA] or 180MB of data, measures 80 mm (8cm or 3.25") round. Fits in small center depression in the tray of most CDR burners and CD-ROM players. Freecom Beatman Mini-CDR player with MP3 decoding http://www.freecom.com/ecCategory_one.asp?ID=8009&type=DRIVE%5FIN Philips Expanium 401 MP3 Mini-CD-R player http://www.tecchannel.de/news/20010503/thema20010503-4303.html More hits: http://www.google.com/search?q=expanium+401 http://www.getasia.com.sg/getasia%5CGetAsiaCachePublish.nsf/Content/251DEF92E1 3C7A0248256A4D001E3376?Opendocument - "Philips EXP 401 MP3-CD portable delivers over three hours of compressed MP3, UDF or AAC audio from single disc. Philips is boosting its eXpandium MP3-CD player features by shrinking the CD player itself - with a CD portable specifically designed to play 8cm (3-inch) CDs which can contain over three hours of compressed digital audio in formats like MP3, UDF or AAC." Due September 2001. MP3-CD playback (32-320 Kbps including Variable Bit Rate); 8cm CD compatibility (Audio CD, CD-R, CD-RW); Onboard decoders: CDDA, MP3, UDF or AAC. Samsung MCD-MP8 MP3 Mini-CD-R player http://www.tecchannel.de/news/20010704/thema20010704-4783.html - 180 und 230 MByte Daten. Die CDs können herkömmliche CD-Brenner beschreiben, und sie sind im Vergleich zu Flash-Medien sehr billig. Beim Direktversender Pearl, der ebenfalls einen Mini-CD-Player von Q-Sonic (289 Mark) anbietet, kostet das Medium zum Beispiel 2,30 Mark. Der Samsung Yepp wiegt 165 Gramm und misst 113 x 100 x 29 Millimeter. Er ist mit den üblichen Features wie etwa Zwischenspeicherung zum Schutz vor Erschütterung ausgestattet. Vorerst kommt der Player in Korea auf den Markt und kostet dort 193 US-Dollar. PC World July 5 2001 - Samsung Adds [Mini] CDs to Yepp MP3 Players http://www.pcworld.com/resource/printable/article/0,aid,54484,00.asp - "Samsung Electronics doesn't want you to have to choose between size and song storage capacity in your MP3 player. On Tuesday, the company launched the latest member of its Yepp line of MP3 digital music players, aimed at offering a compromise between some of the most desired aspects in these devices. While small size and light weight are desirable in MP3 players, they often limit memory capacity and new memory cards can cost as much, or even more, than the player itself. The launch of MP3 CD players last year solved the latter problem, enabling hundreds of songs to be stored in MP3 format on a CD, but the resulting players became too large to fit into most pockets and were heavy to carry. The new CD-Yepp player, which will sell in South Korea for $193, uses 8-centimeter MP3 CDs and so offers a compromise in terms of size, weight and memory capacity. An 8-centimeter CD can hold about 200MB of information or roughly one third of the data that can be stored on a conventional 12-centimeter disc. This translates into about 50 songs. The player features an electronic skipping protection system that can store up to 100 seconds of data in memory to guard against music interruption when the CD skips. Battery life is six hours. The MCD-MP8 CD-Yepp measures 4.4 by 1.2 by 3.9 inches in size and weighs just over five ounces. Samsung says it has no immediate plans to sell the device outside South Korea." More hits for MCD-MP8: http://www.google.com/search?q=MCD-MP8 MD-to-MP3 technology linkup & crossover http://www.minidisc.org/part_links.html#mp3 Sony external CDRW drive (not Mini-CDRW sized, no special audio features) http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=754 Review of Sony MDS-PC3 external MD drive (and M-Crew software and PCLK-MN10 PC Link Kit) from that cool magazine -- the March 2001 issue of Hi-Fi & Computer Audio World: http://www.computeraudio.co.uk/caw/cawreviewshtml/sonymdspc3md.html - SONY MDS-PC3 - PC LINKED MINIDISC RECORDER - £350. Nick Tate tries out Sony's brand new MDS-PC3 PC-linked MiniDisc recorder. The idea of a small, compact, easily re- recordable and editable disc is brilliant, but in practice MiniDisc's strengths have been harder to implement. The problem has been that to control its many facilities (Track Erase, All Erase, Move, Delete, Divide, Title, Undo, etc.), you've had to wade through an obstructive Edit Menu involving more button pushing than your average NASA flight controller. And if you wish to title every single song on your disc, you're talking about a seriously intensive workout on the remote control or front panel 'jog dial'. What better idea then, than to link your MiniDisc recorder to a computer, where text entry is quick - thanks to a full sized QWERTY keyboard - and the intricacies of compiling MDs can be more quickly and efficiently handled? Enter Sony's MDS-PC3, the third in a line of PC-linked MiniDisc machines that started with the (yes, you've guessed it) PC1 back in 1998. Since then, the deck has got smaller, small enough indeed to occupy no more space than a PC CD-ROM drive, although I'm not sure if anyone's actually tried physically slotting one in to a computer drive bay. Sony's page about MDS-PC3: http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/ss5/home/homeaudio/minidiscdigitalrecorde rs/mds-pc3.shtml The MDS-PC3 initially seems like an external drive that treats a MD just like a CDRW or Zip disk, but there is a fundamental difference because MD was deliberately crippled: this drive is designed to force ATRAC upon you every time you transfer a file from the PC drive to the MiniDisc. You *can* do a GUI drag-and-drop, but instead of a fast-as-possible bit-for-bit copy as with moving the file to another hard drive, it is realtime or perhaps 2x or 4x -- why? So it can do you the "favor" of doing an ATRAC lossy compression generation whether you want that or not. Unlike an external CDRW drive, you cannot use this MD drive to do a bit-for-bit copy from your hard drive to the MiniDisc. That is the *essential* difference and the heart of what sucks about MD versus MP3, especially for people who are interested in bulk trading. Those people would be better off with an MP3 CD-R setup than even this ideal ergonomic MD deck. I can *control* MP3 -- a file only gets MP3-compressed if I tell it to, but MD gear insists on adding ATRAC whether I want it or not. With "MP3" technology, *I* decide and control the type of compression -- .wma, .mp3, or none. We don't *want* this compression processing forced upon us, slowing us down! And Sony knows that. I wish to free the MD storage medium from the ATRAC compression encoding and have control over when and how often the ATRAC encoding is used. I have such control when using MP3-type technology, but not with Sony's bundled and crippled system in which the ATRAC processing is handcuffed or welded to the MD storage medium. -- Michael Hoffman Search for related pages http://www.google.com/search?q=MDS-PC3+sony A nice page about MDS-PC3: http://www.video-direct.com/sony/minidisc/mds-pc3.html Is CDDB supported? I think M-Crew software supports it. http://www.minidisc.org/part_Whats_new.html - "Kris Gielen sends in an updated PCLK-MN10 manual (v1.05E), this version includes proper bookmarks along with additional screenshots and information. He includes 1 2 3 pages scanned from the M-Crew manual on how to connect the Sony MDS-PC3 to a PC (information apparently not available online or in the other manuals). The PCLK-MN10 manual mentions Sony's homepage for M-Crew compatible gear." Ultra-thin external CDRW burner http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000056L2R - horror stories as awful as I had with my Sony Spressa USB external CDRW drive, but good concept. Take a look at this case, then imagine a Mini-CDRW 80mm version. George Styles releases RIP MDS-PC3 (v0.2b), a free alternative to Sony's M-Crew software that offers improved MP3 file handling. Mike Paulus finds Archos' updated Jukebox HD-MP3 Recorder & Player with S/PDIF and line in, real-time 160kbps MP3 encoding, USB I/O for drag and drop track handling, and 6GB capacity (there's a 20 gig version in the works). The 350gram, US$350 unit will play 10 hours on a full charge and is slated for June 21 shipment. Eric Woudenberg made my Mini-CD investigations a news item today regarding my Mini-CDR MP3 player announcements from a few days ago: http://www.minidisc.org/part_Whats_new.html - 8/4: The MPzip is the first mini-CD MP3 player, Joe Hui gives it a thorough review. Its near-CD player bulk and poor battery life (~1-2 hr) hardly make it an MD slayer, however the allure of easy, unimpeded computer access to its media gives an MD fan pause. (Courtesy Michael Hoffman) Joe's review -- http://hardware.dmusic.com/reviews/mpzip/printer.php More hits: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=mpzip+mp3 http://www.ez-mp3.com/page8.html - pictures of MPZip Eric did not mention the second or third or fourth Mini-CD player: the Freecom Beatman or the Samsung/Yepp MCD-MP8 or the Expanium 401, which probably all have a longer battery life. Thanks to July 2001 issue of Hi-Fi & Computer Audio World, which has an excellent article comparing portable storage media in terms of price, size, storage size, positioning, and ergonomics. But what Earth still lacks is an external Mini-CDRW (8-cm only) burner. It will be at least 5 minutes more before there is such a thing. It should include headphone output and bass boost, and built-in MP3 decoding. -- Michael Hoffman http://www.amptone.com/audio ----------------------------------------------------------------- To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
