Zac I think you will find that the early cars had the short struts not the
later cars?
----------
>From: "Zac Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 8:37 PM
>
> 68/69 and Jap import wagons have the higher control arm mounts and longer
> struts.
> The others had lower control arm mounts and shorter struts
>
> I have installed one of these crossmembers into my '71 in an attempt to
> lower the bumpsteer and restore the angle of the control arm. It worked
> well, but there is still some bumpsteer in extreme circumstances.
>
> zac
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: andrew smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>
>
>> I have a couple of 1600's and have found that they have different pivot
> points for the control arm.One of the has a higher pivot.Don't ask me what
> model as I bought about 6 of them out of
>> various models.
>> Andrew Smith
>>
>> Andrew Greenbury wrote:
>>
>> > hey there nick
>> >
>> > i would say that lowering a 1600 would lower the macpherson strut
>> > front roll centre not raise it, but depending on the actual semi
>> > trailing arm rear geometry, the front roll centre may or may not end
>> > up higher than the rear roll centre!!
>> >
>> > may be able to give you some more definite answers regarding the
>> > 1600 in a couple of months, as i may be using that geometry as
>> > part validation of vehicle dynamics software i am developing.
>> >
>> > in the meantime, i could offer some references if you dont mind
>> > some maths! email me privately if you were interested.
>> >
>> > wish i had more answers!
>> > andrew
>> >
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Date sent: Mon, Jan 29 2001 15:23:25 GMT+1100
>> > Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>> >
>> > > Trevor, Errol and list
>> > >
>> > > I tried swapping T/arms on my Stanza to get extra length (more camber)
> and found two points.
>> > > 1. You can get T/arms with the inner pivot point narrower than stock
> (see 200B)so you can shim it forward in the crossmember to get caster
> without distorting the bush.
>> > > 2. The toe control arms generally won't line up with their mounts as
> the distance from the crossmember to the front suspension mount is different
> from model to model.
>> > > If anyone knows any swaps let me know - but I think I'll try the
> cut'n'shut method.
>> > >
>> > > One aspect of suspension that hasn't been mentioned is roll centre.
>> > > A lowered 1600 possibly has the front roll centre higher than the rear
> roll centre.
>> > > This gives good rear end traction but there should be a way of
> fiddling with the suspension geometry to adjust them to get a good balance
> between grip and rear end traction in corners.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone know any more about playing with roll centres?
>> > > regards,
>> > > Nick
>> > > 1978 Datsun Stanza
>> > > ============================================================
>> > > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:40:27 +1030
>> > > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>> > >
>> > > Listers,
>> > >
>> > > Jason Gray's tech page may give you some more ideas.
>> > > <a
> href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm">http://home.att.net/~jas
> on510/suspension.htm</a>
>> > > <<a
> href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm>">http://home.att.net/~ja
> son510/suspension.htm></a>
>> > >
>> > > He mentions on this page about 710 parts which can be fitted ito a
> 1600.
>> > > Offset isolators (bolt holes moved 5mm), 3/8th inch longer control
> arms and
>> > > different positioning of the lower control arm mounts in the
> crossmember
>> > > (haven't measured this one). This may be enough on a road car to keep
> you
>> > > happy.
>> > >
>> > > I am currently using some adjustable Datrally lower control arms (3cm
> longer
>> > > than std 1600) and torana radius rods (max adjustment). I have 2 deg
> neg
>> > > camber and 4 deg of pos caster. This was with 2 inch lowered kings
> springs,
>> > > good shocks and std isolators. I also have a big front sway bar. Turn
> in is
>> > > not bad, the car lifts the inside front wheel at turn 1 at sandown.
> Past the
>> > > apex the car has understeer as you get on the gas again. I need a rear
> sway
>> > > bar or maybe put on the std front bar. I have and open diff and 195 x
> 60 x
>> > > 14 brigdstone 520s tyres. I plan to try the 5mm offset isolators at
> Calder
>> > > on the 17th of feb.
>> > >
>> > > Nick, I like the look of the rose jointed lower contol arm for a race
> car.
>> > > They don't put any stess on the pivot on the crossmember when you wind
> up
>> > > heaps of pos caster. Rember the picks of the failed pivot points on
> the list
>> > > a while back!
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > > Trev
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Errol Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2001 8:36
>> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Andrew, Ken, List,
>> > >
>> > > The reason for running that much castor is that castor turns into
> camber on
>> > > turns. This means that when the wheel is turned into a corner the
> wheels
>> > > gets a lot more camber from running high castor levels
>> > >
>> > > I usually run Caster and camber equal if possible. Five caster and
> five
>> > > degrees camber and this seems to give the best steering in turns
> without
>> > > needing arms like Godzilla to turn the wheel.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > >
>> > > Feral Errol
>> > >
>> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > >
>> > > <a href="http://www.datrats.com.au/">http://www.datrats.com.au/</a>
> <<a href="http://www.datrats.
>> > com.au/>">http://www.datrats.com.au/></a>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of andrew smith
>> > > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:06 AM
>> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Ken,
>> > > I don't know why more people don't extend there control arms for more
> neg
>> > > camber as the 1600's have quite poor suspension geometry standard and
> this
>> > > is a cheap fix when combined with adjustable castor.Any good welder
> should
>> > > be able to do this using a 3 run fillet weld for added
> strength.Whiteline
>> > > say they do quite a bit of research and development work on there
> suspension
>> > > packages and after trying a few of there settings I tend to agree with
> what
>> > > they say.A Silvia comes standard with 4deg of pos castor and it would
> seem
>> > > that most late model RWD cars have similar castor and the sportier
> the car
>> > > the more castor.I dont know if this applies to all cars but some that
> I've
>> > > looked up this seems to be the case.A lot of people put a stiffer
> front bar
>> > > on there 1600's without the other mods and I reckon this just makes
> them
>> > > understeer worse.But when combined with 4-6deg pos castor,2-3deg neg
>> > > camber,some good shocks and slightly lowered springs you'll be
> suprised how
>> > > hard you can push the front and if you have good front tyres you need
> to use
>> > > a full harness type seat belt to get the full benifet of this
> setup.The car
>> > > just turns into corners so much better and it seems to make the car a
> lot
>> > > more stable at high speed cornering.One thing though,the front king
> springs
>> > > I bought from Whiteline were marked as Hyundai XL springs but they
> told me
>> > > they also suit the 1600's but when I fitted them I found they were to
> low
>> > > and not captive(illegal).He told me they were the springs for the 200B
>> > > struts.Anyway I raised the seat height giving me the same ride height
> as
>> > > Whitline recomend.Sorry for dribbling on so much but I'm sure there's
> others
>> > > on the list that have a lot of experience in setting up 1600's to
> handle
>> > > well so I'll be interested in what they have to say.
>> > > Andrew Smith
>> > > Ken Abraham wrote:
>> > >
>> > > List members,I have had a look at the whiteline web site and have a
> few
>> > > comments and questions. Why don't more people 'cut-and-shut' their
> front
>> > > transverse arms? I would have thought that it would be at least as
> popular
>> > > as slotting the rear X-member - when you consider the benefitsIt is
> not
>> > > something that most people should do by themselves though
> (unsafe).Errol, is
>> > > it something that you could do? Whiteline makes a big thing out of the
>> > > caster angle, they seem to think the more the better.My understanding
> is
>> > > that more caster means more steering feel and effort and a slight
> amount of
>> > > neg. camber on turn-in.I certainly feel that my car needs more caster,
> but
>> > > >6 degrees?Why do you think they recommend such drastic angles, and
> what
>> > > does a modern RWD car run? They also made a very good point about a
> stiff
>> > > front sway bar limiting diagonal weight transfer, i.e keeping the
> inside
>> > > rear wheel in firm contact with the road when you are going around
>> > > corners.The R31 sway bar is slightly wider than the standard
>> > > 1600/Stanza/etc.. version and it is also pretty thick (mine is approx.
>> > > 20mm). So if you lengthen the transverse arms as mentioned above the
> larger
>> > > R31 bar 'should' just bolt in.SWEETProbably not as good as a LSD, but
> no wet
>> > > weather drawbacks, and very low cost by comparison.No more
> embarrassing
>> > > wheel-spin coming out of round-a-bouts.Has anyone got a big front sway
> bar
>> > > on their car? If so, what is your traction and handling like?
>> > > Regards,Nick1978 Datsun Stanza
>> > >
>> > >
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