Sorry - yeah I got it the wrong way around :)
zac
----- Original Message -----
From: Denzil Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> Zac I think you will find that the early cars had the short struts not the
> later cars?
>
> ----------
> >From: "Zac Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 8:37 PM
> >
>
> > 68/69 and Jap import wagons have the higher control arm mounts and
longer
> > struts.
> > The others had lower control arm mounts and shorter struts
> >
> > I have installed one of these crossmembers into my '71 in an attempt to
> > lower the bumpsteer and restore the angle of the control arm. It worked
> > well, but there is still some bumpsteer in extreme circumstances.
> >
> > zac
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: andrew smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >
> >
> >> I have a couple of 1600's and have found that they have different pivot
> > points for the control arm.One of the has a higher pivot.Don't ask me
what
> > model as I bought about 6 of them out of
> >> various models.
> >> Andrew Smith
> >>
> >> Andrew Greenbury wrote:
> >>
> >> > hey there nick
> >> >
> >> > i would say that lowering a 1600 would lower the macpherson strut
> >> > front roll centre not raise it, but depending on the actual semi
> >> > trailing arm rear geometry, the front roll centre may or may not end
> >> > up higher than the rear roll centre!!
> >> >
> >> > may be able to give you some more definite answers regarding the
> >> > 1600 in a couple of months, as i may be using that geometry as
> >> > part validation of vehicle dynamics software i am developing.
> >> >
> >> > in the meantime, i could offer some references if you dont mind
> >> > some maths! email me privately if you were interested.
> >> >
> >> > wish i had more answers!
> >> > andrew
> >> >
> >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > Date sent: Mon, Jan 29 2001 15:23:25 GMT+1100
> >> > Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > Subject: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >> >
> >> > > Trevor, Errol and list
> >> > >
> >> > > I tried swapping T/arms on my Stanza to get extra length (more
camber)
> > and found two points.
> >> > > 1. You can get T/arms with the inner pivot point narrower than
stock
> > (see 200B)so you can shim it forward in the crossmember to get caster
> > without distorting the bush.
> >> > > 2. The toe control arms generally won't line up with their mounts
as
> > the distance from the crossmember to the front suspension mount is
different
> > from model to model.
> >> > > If anyone knows any swaps let me know - but I think I'll try the
> > cut'n'shut method.
> >> > >
> >> > > One aspect of suspension that hasn't been mentioned is roll centre.
> >> > > A lowered 1600 possibly has the front roll centre higher than the
rear
> > roll centre.
> >> > > This gives good rear end traction but there should be a way of
> > fiddling with the suspension geometry to adjust them to get a good
balance
> > between grip and rear end traction in corners.
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone know any more about playing with roll centres?
> >> > > regards,
> >> > > Nick
> >> > > 1978 Datsun Stanza
> >> > > ============================================================
> >> > > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:40:27 +1030
> >> > > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >> > >
> >> > > Listers,
> >> > >
> >> > > Jason Gray's tech page may give you some more ideas.
> >> > > <a
> >
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm">http://home.att.net/~jas
> > on510/suspension.htm</a>
> >> > > <<a
> >
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm>">http://home.att.net/~ja
> > son510/suspension.htm></a>
> >> > >
> >> > > He mentions on this page about 710 parts which can be fitted ito a
> > 1600.
> >> > > Offset isolators (bolt holes moved 5mm), 3/8th inch longer control
> > arms and
> >> > > different positioning of the lower control arm mounts in the
> > crossmember
> >> > > (haven't measured this one). This may be enough on a road car to
keep
> > you
> >> > > happy.
> >> > >
> >> > > I am currently using some adjustable Datrally lower control arms
(3cm
> > longer
> >> > > than std 1600) and torana radius rods (max adjustment). I have 2
deg
> > neg
> >> > > camber and 4 deg of pos caster. This was with 2 inch lowered kings
> > springs,
> >> > > good shocks and std isolators. I also have a big front sway bar.
Turn
> > in is
> >> > > not bad, the car lifts the inside front wheel at turn 1 at sandown.
> > Past the
> >> > > apex the car has understeer as you get on the gas again. I need a
rear
> > sway
> >> > > bar or maybe put on the std front bar. I have and open diff and 195
x
> > 60 x
> >> > > 14 brigdstone 520s tyres. I plan to try the 5mm offset isolators at
> > Calder
> >> > > on the 17th of feb.
> >> > >
> >> > > Nick, I like the look of the rose jointed lower contol arm for a
race
> > car.
> >> > > They don't put any stess on the pivot on the crossmember when you
wind
> > up
> >> > > heaps of pos caster. Rember the picks of the failed pivot points on
> > the list
> >> > > a while back!
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards
> >> > > Trev
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Errol Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2001 8:36
> >> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Andrew, Ken, List,
> >> > >
> >> > > The reason for running that much castor is that castor turns into
> > camber on
> >> > > turns. This means that when the wheel is turned into a corner the
> > wheels
> >> > > gets a lot more camber from running high castor levels
> >> > >
> >> > > I usually run Caster and camber equal if possible. Five caster and
> > five
> >> > > degrees camber and this seems to give the best steering in turns
> > without
> >> > > needing arms like Godzilla to turn the wheel.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers
> >> > >
> >> > > Feral Errol
> >> > >
> >> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >
> >> > > <a href="http://www.datrats.com.au/">http://www.datrats.com.au/</a>
> > <<a href="http://www.datrats.
> >> > com.au/>">http://www.datrats.com.au/></a>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of andrew
smith
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:06 AM
> >> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Ken,
> >> > > I don't know why more people don't extend there control arms for
more
> > neg
> >> > > camber as the 1600's have quite poor suspension geometry standard
and
> > this
> >> > > is a cheap fix when combined with adjustable castor.Any good welder
> > should
> >> > > be able to do this using a 3 run fillet weld for added
> > strength.Whiteline
> >> > > say they do quite a bit of research and development work on there
> > suspension
> >> > > packages and after trying a few of there settings I tend to agree
with
> > what
> >> > > they say.A Silvia comes standard with 4deg of pos castor and it
would
> > seem
> >> > > that most late model RWD cars have similar castor and the sportier
> > the car
> >> > > the more castor.I dont know if this applies to all cars but some
that
> > I've
> >> > > looked up this seems to be the case.A lot of people put a stiffer
> > front bar
> >> > > on there 1600's without the other mods and I reckon this just makes
> > them
> >> > > understeer worse.But when combined with 4-6deg pos castor,2-3deg
neg
> >> > > camber,some good shocks and slightly lowered springs you'll be
> > suprised how
> >> > > hard you can push the front and if you have good front tyres you
need
> > to use
> >> > > a full harness type seat belt to get the full benifet of this
> > setup.The car
> >> > > just turns into corners so much better and it seems to make the car
a
> > lot
> >> > > more stable at high speed cornering.One thing though,the front king
> > springs
> >> > > I bought from Whiteline were marked as Hyundai XL springs but they
> > told me
> >> > > they also suit the 1600's but when I fitted them I found they were
to
> > low
> >> > > and not captive(illegal).He told me they were the springs for the
200B
> >> > > struts.Anyway I raised the seat height giving me the same ride
height
> > as
> >> > > Whitline recomend.Sorry for dribbling on so much but I'm sure
there's
> > others
> >> > > on the list that have a lot of experience in setting up 1600's to
> > handle
> >> > > well so I'll be interested in what they have to say.
> >> > > Andrew Smith
> >> > > Ken Abraham wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > List members,I have had a look at the whiteline web site and have a
> > few
> >> > > comments and questions. Why don't more people 'cut-and-shut' their
> > front
> >> > > transverse arms? I would have thought that it would be at least as
> > popular
> >> > > as slotting the rear X-member - when you consider the benefitsIt is
> > not
> >> > > something that most people should do by themselves though
> > (unsafe).Errol, is
> >> > > it something that you could do? Whiteline makes a big thing out of
the
> >> > > caster angle, they seem to think the more the better.My
understanding
> > is
> >> > > that more caster means more steering feel and effort and a slight
> > amount of
> >> > > neg. camber on turn-in.I certainly feel that my car needs more
caster,
> > but
> >> > > >6 degrees?Why do you think they recommend such drastic angles, and
> > what
> >> > > does a modern RWD car run? They also made a very good point about a
> > stiff
> >> > > front sway bar limiting diagonal weight transfer, i.e keeping the
> > inside
> >> > > rear wheel in firm contact with the road when you are going around
> >> > > corners.The R31 sway bar is slightly wider than the standard
> >> > > 1600/Stanza/etc.. version and it is also pretty thick (mine is
approx.
> >> > > 20mm). So if you lengthen the transverse arms as mentioned above
the
> > larger
> >> > > R31 bar 'should' just bolt in.SWEETProbably not as good as a LSD,
but
> > no wet
> >> > > weather drawbacks, and very low cost by comparison.No more
> > embarrassing
> >> > > wheel-spin coming out of round-a-bouts.Has anyone got a big front
sway
> > bar
> >> > > on their car? If so, what is your traction and handling like?
> >> > > Regards,Nick1978 Datsun Stanza
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
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