Hi y'all - the current book club choice is "Power" by Bertrand Russell - I suppose you are too distant to join? Coincidentally he has much to say on this subject. He makes the exellent point that the rise in scientific knowledge has led to the decline in theological power. He gives lots of examples - here are a few: p.111 The world ceased to believe that Joshua caused the sun to stand still because Copernican astronomy was useful in navigation. Aristotle's physics were abandoned because Galileo's theory of falling bodies made it possible to calculate the trajectory of a cannon ball. The story of the flood was rejected because geology is useful in mining. Of course many US fundamentalists reject this scientific knowledge in favor of biblical crap, but the civilized world recognises the rise in scientific explanations of heretofore sacred cows. One day even the fundies will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 18th (sic) century and we'll have a chance of omitting gods from our lives.
On Aug 31, 12:21 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, he went overboard in the context of our current thinking. > Clearly, there is not enough motivation by the populous even today to > change it and, having been alive during the era, I can clearly say > that the groupthink was in favor of religious things. > While there have been a few attempts to strike down this clear breach, > in general, they have not been supported by the citizenry. > This said, we have had 'science' all along. Perhaps you meant to say > we have more data to aid in our thinking? Regardless, I don't see how > science addresses the issue at all. > > On Aug 31, 9:04 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all - but have you taken Charles' hermeneutics into account? > > Obviously Ike did when he felt threatened by communist atheists - the > > context of the event. As is usually the case he attempted to over > > correct the matter. We end up with a clear breach of the 1st Amendment > > (unchallenged.) Hermeneutics would again dictate that gods on the > > coinage reflected the superstitious mindset of the time. We are now > > fortunate to have more science to help us make our decisions and wipe > > away the myths. Let's use it wisely, Let's take up arms. I'm out in > > front. Today rural TN. Tomorrow............................ the > > nearest bar! > > > On Aug 30, 6:53 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ike did not chose the motto and yes, he had something to do with the > > > change of the pledge. I still remember having to relearn it and how > > > awkward it was to add those words. > > > > While not attempting to be a big apologist for Ike, the 50s were a > > > different era. Its was a difficult time with different fears from > > > those of today. I do understand why he wasn’t opposed to what in fact > > > was a very old idea. Of course, congress wrote and passed the law, Ike > > > signed it. > > > > What troubled me more than Ike was Nixon being on McCarthy’s staff… > > > even though he never tried a case. > > > > “With the Cold War underway and Senator Joseph McCarthy’s > > > anticommunism campaign in full swing, President Dwight Eisenhower was > > > likely motivated by a desire to distinguish American customs from the > > > atheistic stance associated with communism. > > > > Francis Scott Key first coined a similar phrase during the War of > > > 1812, inspired by the same events he commemorated in writing the “Star- > > > Spangled Banner,” now the American national anthem. Looking at the > > > tattered—but still flying—American flag the night after Fort McHenry > > > was bombarded by British cannons, Key wrote, “In God is Our Trust.” > > > > The phrase in its current form resulted from Reverend M.R. Watkinson’s > > > call for recognition of a deity on U.S. currency during the American > > > Civil War. He proposed to Treasury Secretary Salmon Chase that, if our > > > country were destroyed, “Would not antiquaries of succeeding centuries > > > reason from our past that we were a heathen nation?” > > > > Chase proposed the final wording, “In God We Trust,” and the motto > > > first appeared in 1864 on the two-cent coin. > > > > The establishment of “In God We Trust” as a national motto and as a > > > fixture on United States currency remains a source of controversy > > > today. > > > > Critics say the motto and its appearance on currency are a breach of > > > the “wall of separation between Church and State” and a violation of > > > First Amendment rights….” > > > > Fromhttp://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/July-August-08/On-thi... > > > > The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God > > > We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after > > > the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1] > > > > More on coin:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust > > > > RE: Pledge > > > > “…Seeking ideas to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the discovery > > > of America on Columbus Day, 1892, President Benjamin Harrison had > > > initiated a call for the development of a special patriotic school > > > program to highlight the event. Bellamy and Upham were able to line up > > > the National Education Association to support Youth's Companion as a > > > sponsor of the observance, and arranged for President Harrison and > > > Congress to announce a national proclamation which centered around an > > > American flag ceremony and (then unwritten) flag salute. > > > Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, then authored the program for > > > the celebration, including the flag salute or Pledge of Allegiance. > > > His original version was, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the > > > Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty > > > and justice for all." Bellamy considered putting the words > > > "fraternity" and "equality" into the Pledge, but decided against it as > > > equality for blacks and women was a controversial rather than > > > patriotic issue of the time. Originally intended for recitation on > > > that single day, the Pledge was an instant success and was quickly > > > adopted by the nation. > > > The Pledge remained in its original version until 1923 when the words > > > "my flag" were changed to "the Flag of the United States" at the > > > urging of the American Legion's National Flag Conference. The > > > following year the Pledge was altered again with the addition "of > > > America" after "Flag of the United States." This version of the Pledge > > > was codified into Public Law in 1942. > > > The Pledge remained unchanged until the paranoia and hysteria stemming > > > from Sen. Joseph R. McCarthy's "red scare" hearings swept the nation > > > in the 1950s. Fearing Communism might cross the Atlantic and engulf > > > America, a feeling arose in Congress and throughout parts of the > > > nation that by acknowledging "God" as our national symbol, America > > > would be protected from the Communist menace. Scoring a religious > > > Trifecta of sorts, the Pledge was amended in 1954 to include the words > > > "under God;" legislation to add the motto "In God We Trust" to all > > > coins and currency was passed in 1955; and the national motto "E > > > Pluribus Unum" [out of many, one] was changed to "In God We Trust" in > > > 1956. Collectively these measures form an interesting trilogy of laws > > > for a country founded on a secular Constitution and a belief in the > > > separation of church and > > > state…”http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1999/May99/lynn.html > > > > On Aug 30, 1:05 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all - forgive a poor ignorant immigrant, but wasn't he the > > > > President who chose our "national motto" and placed "under god " in > > > > the pledge? > > > > > On Aug 30, 2:26 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Oh, and perhaps to the topic, may we never forget these words of > > > > > wisdom from a man who was a general and a president for the USA. I > > > > > remember him well. > > > > > > "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition > > > > > of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military > > > > > industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced > > > > > power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this > > > > > combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should > > > > > take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry > > > > > can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military > > > > > machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that > > > > > security and liberty may prosper together." > > > > > > Former President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Farewell Address to the Nation. > > > > > January 17, 1961 > > > > > > On Aug 30, 12:17 pm, Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > <<it is possible that some of us operate under the control of memes > > > > > > that > > > > > > seek to find the truth, even when it means proving that some of our > > > > > > most cherished beliefs (memes) are wrong. >> > > > > > > > Agreed. But that changes your criterion; you would remove the > > > > > > voting > > > > > > rights of those with *bad* memes.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
