"Hi y'all - I think you are closer to Michael than you are to me." - Clog
Thought noted! :-) On Aug 31, 5:58 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi y'all - I think you are closer to Michael than you are to me. > > On Aug 31, 6:20 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > First, I wonder if you truly wonder! ;-) > > > That said, since there is One, and no 2nd, that is the answer for your > > first two questions. > > > The third question has to do with what may appear to be semantics and > > for me at least is a simple clarity. I hold no dogma/beliefs about the > > One. Since there are no beliefs, there is no theism. > > > On Aug 31, 2:25 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi y'all - I wonder which One you no longer reject, and if you've > > > chosen the right One not to reject, and if you have One, why you term > > > yourself an atheist. > > > > On Aug 31, 4:09 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I sure wish I could join...not enough commuter flights at the right > > > > price though. :D > > > > > And, a review of Russell wouldn't hurt. It's been about 50 years since > > > > I've read him. > > > > > And strangest of all, over the last few years, as 'irrational' as I > > > > know you find it (and I used to find it), I no longer reject the > > > > One...even though I am an atheist. > > > > > On Aug 31, 12:09 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi y'all - the current book club choice is "Power" by Bertrand Russell > > > > > - I suppose you are too distant to join? Coincidentally he has much to > > > > > say on this subject. He makes the exellent point that the rise in > > > > > scientific knowledge has led to the decline in theological power. He > > > > > gives lots of examples - here are a few: p.111 The world ceased to > > > > > believe that Joshua caused the sun to stand still because Copernican > > > > > astronomy was useful in navigation. Aristotle's physics were abandoned > > > > > because Galileo's theory of falling bodies made it possible to > > > > > calculate the trajectory of a cannon ball. The story of the flood was > > > > > rejected because geology is useful in mining. > > > > > Of course many US fundamentalists reject this scientific knowledge in > > > > > favor of biblical crap, but the civilized world recognises the rise in > > > > > scientific explanations of heretofore sacred cows. One day even the > > > > > fundies will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 18th (sic) > > > > > century and we'll have a chance of omitting gods from our lives. > > > > > > On Aug 31, 12:21 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, he went overboard in the context of our current thinking. > > > > > > Clearly, there is not enough motivation by the populous even today > > > > > > to > > > > > > change it and, having been alive during the era, I can clearly say > > > > > > that the groupthink was in favor of religious things. > > > > > > While there have been a few attempts to strike down this clear > > > > > > breach, > > > > > > in general, they have not been supported by the citizenry. > > > > > > This said, we have had 'science' all along. Perhaps you meant to say > > > > > > we have more data to aid in our thinking? Regardless, I don't see > > > > > > how > > > > > > science addresses the issue at all. > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 9:04 am, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi y'all - but have you taken Charles' hermeneutics into account? > > > > > > > Obviously Ike did when he felt threatened by communist atheists - > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > context of the event. As is usually the case he attempted to over > > > > > > > correct the matter. We end up with a clear breach of the 1st > > > > > > > Amendment > > > > > > > (unchallenged.) Hermeneutics would again dictate that gods on the > > > > > > > coinage reflected the superstitious mindset of the time. We are > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > fortunate to have more science to help us make our decisions and > > > > > > > wipe > > > > > > > away the myths. Let's use it wisely, Let's take up arms. I'm out > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > front. Today rural TN. Tomorrow............................ the > > > > > > > nearest bar! > > > > > > > > On Aug 30, 6:53 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ike did not chose the motto and yes, he had something to do > > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > > change of the pledge. I still remember having to relearn it and > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > awkward it was to add those words. > > > > > > > > > While not attempting to be a big apologist for Ike, the 50s > > > > > > > > were a > > > > > > > > different era. Its was a difficult time with different fears > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > those of today. I do understand why he wasn’t opposed to what > > > > > > > > in fact > > > > > > > > was a very old idea. Of course, congress wrote and passed the > > > > > > > > law, Ike > > > > > > > > signed it. > > > > > > > > > What troubled me more than Ike was Nixon being on McCarthy’s > > > > > > > > staff… > > > > > > > > even though he never tried a case. > > > > > > > > > “With the Cold War underway and Senator Joseph McCarthy’s > > > > > > > > anticommunism campaign in full swing, President Dwight > > > > > > > > Eisenhower was > > > > > > > > likely motivated by a desire to distinguish American customs > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > atheistic stance associated with communism. > > > > > > > > > Francis Scott Key first coined a similar phrase during the War > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > 1812, inspired by the same events he commemorated in writing > > > > > > > > the “Star- > > > > > > > > Spangled Banner,” now the American national anthem. Looking at > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > tattered—but still flying—American flag the night after Fort > > > > > > > > McHenry > > > > > > > > was bombarded by British cannons, Key wrote, “In God is Our > > > > > > > > Trust.” > > > > > > > > > The phrase in its current form resulted from Reverend M.R. > > > > > > > > Watkinson’s > > > > > > > > call for recognition of a deity on U.S. currency during the > > > > > > > > American > > > > > > > > Civil War. He proposed to Treasury Secretary Salmon Chase that, > > > > > > > > if our > > > > > > > > country were destroyed, “Would not antiquaries of succeeding > > > > > > > > centuries > > > > > > > > reason from our past that we were a heathen nation?” > > > > > > > > > Chase proposed the final wording, “In God We Trust,” and the > > > > > > > > motto > > > > > > > > first appeared in 1864 on the two-cent coin. > > > > > > > > > The establishment of “In God We Trust” as a national motto and > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > fixture on United States currency remains a source of > > > > > > > > controversy > > > > > > > > today. > > > > > > > > > Critics say the motto and its appearance on currency are a > > > > > > > > breach of > > > > > > > > the “wall of separation between Church and State” and a > > > > > > > > violation of > > > > > > > > First Amendment rights….” > > > > > > > > > Fromhttp://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/July-August-08/On-thi... > > > > > > > > > The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but > > > > > > > > In God > > > > > > > > We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1] > > > > > > > > > More on coin:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust > > > > > > > > > RE: Pledge > > > > > > > > > “…Seeking ideas to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the > > > > > > > > discovery > > > > > > > > of America on Columbus Day, 1892, President Benjamin Harrison > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > initiated a call for the development of a special patriotic > > > > > > > > school > > > > > > > > program to highlight the event. Bellamy and Upham were able to > > > > > > > > line up > > > > > > > > the National Education Association to support Youth's Companion > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > sponsor of the observance, and arranged for President Harrison > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Congress to announce a national proclamation which centered > > > > > > > > around an > > > > > > > > American flag ceremony and (then unwritten) flag salute. > > > > > > > > Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, then authored the > > > > > > > > program for > > > > > > > > the celebration, including the flag salute or Pledge of > > > > > > > > Allegiance. > > > > > > > > His original version was, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > > Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with > > > > > > > > liberty > > > > > > > > and justice for all." Bellamy considered putting the words > > > > > > > > "fraternity" and "equality" into the Pledge, but decided > > > > > > > > against it as > > > > > > > > equality for blacks and women was a controversial rather than > > > > > > > > patriotic issue of the time. Originally intended for recitation > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > that single day, the Pledge was an instant success and was > > > > > > > > quickly > > > > > > > > adopted by the nation. > > > > > > > > The Pledge remained in its original version until 1923 when the > > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > "my flag" were changed to "the Flag of the United States" at the > > > > > > > > urging of the American Legion's National Flag Conference. The > > > > > > > > following year the Pledge was altered again with the addition > > > > > > > > "of > > > > > > > > America" after "Flag of the United States." This version of the > > > > > > > > Pledge > > > > > > > > was codified into Public Law in 1942. > > > > > > > > The Pledge remained unchanged until the paranoia and hysteria > > > > > > > > stemming > > > > > > > > from Sen. Joseph R. McCarthy's "red scare" hearings swept the > > > > > > > > nation > > > > > > > > in the 1950s. Fearing Communism might cross the Atlantic and > > > > > > > > engulf > > > > > > > > America, a feeling arose in Congress and throughout parts of the > > > > > > > > nation that by acknowledging "God" as our national symbol, > > > > > > > > America > > > > > > > > would be protected from the Communist menace. Scoring a > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > Trifecta of sorts, the Pledge was amended in 1954 to include > > > > > > > > the words > > > > > > > > "under God;" legislation to add the motto "In God We Trust" to > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > coins and currency was passed in 1955; and the national motto "E > > > > > > > > Pluribus Unum" [out of many, one] was changed to "In God We > > > > > > > > Trust" in > > > > > > > > 1956. Collectively these measures form an interesting trilogy > > > > > > > > of laws > > > > > > > > for a country founded on a secular Constitution and a belief in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > separation of church and > > > > > > > > state…”http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1999/May99/lynn.html > > > > > > > > > On Aug 30, > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. 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