I see you are attempting to hammer your point home! I'll read the rest as I can Isp! :)
On Jan 4, 5:18 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > “…It seems that you are saying "in some ways" the Japanese are not > lacking in creativty….” – Ish > > “…I have already offered evidence that in the balance Japanese > culture, even at the end of the 20th century, is a rigid culture that > does not encourage inovation….” – Ish > > Yes, I do say that creativity is not a genetic trait that can be > attributed to one culture and not another. Thus, any apparent lack of > creativity, an innate trait, can be found elsewhere. . . the cause of > said appearances is what I’m talking about here. > > Also, what you claim now to have offered evidence of differs quite a > bit from your original declarations: > [“they..lack creativity” and “…originallity is almost non > existant…”. ] > > However, even giving you the right to change what you mean to express, > what you posted before and now here do not go near your original > notions. So, I feel no need to support my disagreement with what I > still understand your original propositions to have been, seeing > little/no evidence supporting them. In fact, your earlier posted > ‘evidence’ goes toward showing how creative many in Japan are. Your > current posts do the same. What they DO show is that there is, in some > areas, social ‘rules’ that appear to stifle creativity. This may be so > in specific areas. It is also true most places on earth. There are > social ‘rules’ that do not like much movement away from any given > ‘norm’ to be found almost everywhere. This has nothing to do with the > presence of individual creativity. > > On Jan 4, 8:14 am, Isparklaria <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Orn and all, > > > Having not lived in Japan, I can only form my opinion of the second > > hand. One of my sources was a Japanese acquaintance of mine. He came > > to the USA with his wife and children so that his children could get > > what he considered a real education. His children were attending a > > private school that had the goal of eventually teaching them to think > > for them selves. He told me about the Japanese educational system. It > > was based almost entirely on rote learning. Unfortunately much of > > American education is now almost all rote learning. I happen to work > > as a substitute teacher, so, at least within the schools I work in, > > this is the case. Hideki and his wife, Yuko, also told me about > > Japanese after school cram schools. As if six hours of rote learning > > weren't enough, many children went for another four to six hours of > > after school "cram school". This leaves little or no time for creative > > activity such as authentic play (exploration). > > > Below is another link to an article from 2004 that backs up my > > statement. I have not taken the time to read more than the abstract, > > which I have pasted in after the link. I have read other articles > > about Japan's lack of creativity and also the lack of creativity in > > some other far eastern nations. One example of this lack of creativity > > is that although their universities produce first-rate technicians > > with PhD degrees, they produce few scientific innovators. How are they > > dealing with this problem? For the most part, they are doing what they > > always do, which is copy someone else's system that already get the > > results, In this case it is mostly America's system. In my opinion > > they are still afraid to improvise, to step into the unknown or even > > attempt a seriously different permutation of their own current > > approach. Although studying and copying the creativity developing ways > > of others is not a total waste, to really be creative one must be > > willing to fall flat on ones face, rather than proceed with caution. > > This is true for developing creativity enhancing educational methods > > also. Without his leap into the unknown, they will only be a modified > > copy of America, and that is not being creative. > > >http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/asiarpt121.pdf > > JUNE 2004 > > > ABSTRACT: The Japanese government is in the midst of economic and > > educational reforms to > > enhance creativity and boost national competitiveness. In this report, > > three experts explore and > > evaluate these unprecedented measures.According to Gerald Hane, Japan > > has already made some > > progress in removing obstacles to entrepreneurship, allowing > > innovators to benefit from their > > ideas, and improving worker mobility—although ample room for > > improvement remains. Akiko > > Hashimoto argues that deeply embedded social hierarchies stifle the > > creativity of Japan’s young > > people.Youths should be brought into the reform process because > > creativity cannot be stimulated > > through top-down regulation, she contends. Misao Hayakawa warns that > > Japan may go too > > far in emphasizing choice and individualism at the expense of > > standards. He maintains that higher > > education has been more successful than lower education in > > implementing reforms that are > > meaningful and measurable. > > > http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/asiarpt121.pdf > > > On Jan 3, 10:26 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ish, I was sure that you had some backing for your beliefs…you often > > > do. And, in general, I have found your posting to be rather even > > > handed and somewhat insightful. > > > > This said, in this one instance, I find what I understand to be your > > > view to be to be far from the case. > > > > Without belaboring the issue, I referenced your words “they..lack > > > creativity” as being ‘in some ways’ not close to reality. I also just > > > referenced your words about the Japanese “…originallity is almost non > > > existant…”. I will add directly here that such an assertion appears > > > absurd to me. > > > > You replied to my using the term ‘Eastern cultures’ with “By the way, > > > I did not say that all eastern cultures produce few creative > > > individuals.” I agree. That is not what you said nor what I implied > > > you said nor is it what you appear to be refuting now. > > > > I retain my original view and clearly say that what you have > > > referenced in your last two posts does nothing at all to disparage > > > this view. I invite all to read them and form their own conclusions. > > > > On Jan 2, 8:51 pm, Isparklaria <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Here is another highly revealing article about Japanese Culture. It is > > > > over 16 years old but that doesn't matter, in my opinion. > > > > >http://www.newint.org/issue231/nail.htm > > > > > new internationalist > > > > issue 231 - May 1992 > > > > > The nail that sticks out > > > > Conformists belong, non-conformists and ethnic minorities get hammered > > > > in Japan. > > > > John Charles and Peter Mallat unravel Japanese groupthink. > > > > > 'SHIGOTO ARIMASUKA?' pesters the tall, dark-skinned man at the railway > > > > exit. He bows incongruously, imitating the mannerisms of the culture > > > > he envies. 'Sir, Sir... do you have a job for me?' > > > > > He is an Iranian day-labourer, doing the hard, dirty jobs now scorned > > > > by almost all Japanese. After getting one day's work he prowls > > > > endlessly in search of the next, before bedding down for the night in > > > > a local park. Sleeping rough is his only option since the local > > > > flophouse was closed by the authorities. For the most part they cause > > > > him little trouble. The indifference of the public is, he says, almost > > > > worse. > > > > > He has - or had - a wife in Iran. Is she still there?.., he doesn't > > > > know. His working conditions?.., a finger-stump is mute testimony. > > > > Accident insurance?.., the gentleman surely jests. 'We Iranians > > > > are...' he begins in English, but words soon escape so he switches to > > > > Japanese. 'We are proud... but war has ruined us.' He shrugs, smiles > > > > ruefully, and is consumed by the surging crowd. > > > > > The old man crouches on the granite steps, mumbling to himself and re- > > > > fighting long forgotten battles. The salarymen weave wary circles > > > > round his stinking nest. Nobody has spoken to him here - he says - for > > > > 20 years. In his sad delusion he imagines that his wealthy wife drives > > > > him out of the house each day 'to avoid gossip' and picks him up at > > > > night. In this most group-oriented of societies even the dropouts > > > > cling to rags of respectability. Wa means 'harmony' or 'proper place': > > > > the executive in the office and the Little Woman minding the hearth. > > > > The consequences of social deviance are so alarming that office > > > > workers between jobs are sometimes forced into masquerades of leaving > > > > home in the morning to return at the end of the working day. You see > > > > them snoring in theatres and glumly clock-watching in coffee shops. > > > > > Japan is unthinkable without groups. Perhaps they developed from the > > > > co-operative labour needed in the scattered villages of a rice-growing > > > > culture. To this day the threat of Mura Hachibu ('rejection from the > > > > village' or ostracism) by family, university alumnus league, company > > > > or even golf club would be enough to bring the most determined social > > > > deviant to heel. It can sometimes seem as if the only escape from the > > > > demands of the group lies in madness. > > > > > The boy shakes his fist and menaces the train guard through the glass. > > > > He suddenly begins to weep. Everybody on the train is desperately > > > > playing the game of 'pay no attention'. One passenger - fluent in > > > > English from residence abroad - feels it necessary to apologize to the > > > > foreigner for such a wanton ruffling of the 'perfect face' of his > > > > country. 'I am sorry,' he says. 'He is... strange. His behaviour is... > > > > not Japanese.' Not Japanese. The words evoke the whole mentality of > > > > group cohesion and rejection and endlessly-interlocking social nets. > > > > > Who are the Japanese? > > > > Anthropologically it is > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
