Hey Tim,
Great reading!!
The problem with storing the grounds is that they stink. This calls for
daily pickup.
The non coffee-related organic waste stream would be split into two: animal
(for biodiesle) and vegetable (inc. eggshells) for composting. How to
effect this practice in the restaurant community (other than using different
color bins) will require a learning curve.
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Tim C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since you asked...
>
> First, let's mention from the other mail:
> >By using the term "business model" I am not suggesting that a profit can
> be
> >turned on the composting of garbage!
>
> I think the '90s proved that unprofitable business models don't work. If
> you want to run
> a charity then take donations.
>
> >My local D.C. Whole Foods has its own liquid composter just outside the
> >store to handle cabbage leaves and other trimmings from the produce
> >department. WF sells the fiished compost for a good price.
> WF has an ideal audience, which will pay a markup for organic *. That's
> great for getting
> rid of a few hundred pounds of compost, but as someone else mentioned
> you're
> competing against $2/40 lb. at home improvement stores, and given the
> likely
> volume
> you'll have to play in that market. You can have a small markup because
> it's organic,
> but more than that and people are going to bail. You can see the ideal
> markup at your
> locally-owned grocery store, around here it's 30-40%.
>
> You probably have to get various permits for handling waste foodstuffs.
> Maybe even
> join the trash collectors' union. Buy a business license. So on.
>
> Now, to ways to make it work. First, it's a lot easier to break even if
> you
> get the
> restaurants to pay you to take their organic refuse. You have a couple
> ways
> to do this
> (not sure how DC works), calculating cost is an exercise for the reader:
>
> 1) point of a gun - get the city to ban organic waste in the regular
> garbage, at least for
> restaurants. Keep it quiet until it is done. (If you want a story I'll
> tell
> you how my county
> banned dogs for poor people.) I hate this method but it works... sort of,
> in
> the short term.
>
> 2) marketing - make an environmentally-super web site (biodiesel/biomass
> generator to
> power the server would be a nice touch) that blabs on and on about waste
> reduction.
> Carbon offset the whole thing and make a big deal about it. Make a
> collection of big-to-
> small signs to give your customers : "Beans environmentally managed by
> andrew.com"
> Figure out a way to attach them cleanly (magnets? Bumper sticker paper?).
> Advertise
> in the 'liberal' newspapers. Include a big list of your current customers.
> If you like the
> research idea (below) make a big deal about some percent of profit invested
> in clean
> technologies or whatever.
>
> Downside of #2 is opening operating costs, I'd suggest you run the first
> year as a sole
> proprietor and write down your taxes for the year, but that's between you
> and your tax
> professional. You also will probably have to 'give' the first few
> restaurants free pickup
> for some years. Downside of #1 is if you fail, you fail big, and you'll
> -have- to go with #2,
> but the investment is low. You'll also tick off a lot of restaurants, so
> use a shill if you
> can, otherwise you'll have trouble getting customers if you have to fall
> back to #2.
>
> So, you have restaurants lined up to give you something, maybe even pay you
> to take
> it away. Rule 1 is to only take what you can use, in your case I'd suggest
> only take
> coffee beans and filters, and perhaps receipt papers (if the coffee machine
> is up front
> it just makes sense). You can always expand to 'all' compost, but for now
> it's a lot
> easier to just focus on one thing. Rule 2 is to make it really really easy
> for the
> restaurants. I'd suggest providing two particular color/style cans for
> next
> to the coffee
> machine, easy bulk storage bin (wheeled 55g drums?), and fixed and obvious
> pickup
> schedule a few hours before closing. Make sure your containers are
> -sealed-
> and
> preferably -stainless steel- so the restaurants don't take a health
> department hit. If
> they don't like you they'll get another provider, ideals only go so far.
>
> Now, you have restaurants collecting coffee grounds for you, in convenient
> 55-gallon
> sealed tubs. On to the pickup. You can probably do two per day, one on
> the
> way to work and one on the way home, so say 8 per week (one day for
> catch-up). I'm
> assuming a nice veggie/bio Benz wagon, no passengers, and only 1-2
> 55-gallon
> containers per week per store, able to be carried horizontally. You're not
> going too
> far out of your normal way to work, so far your only recurring cost is
> insurance and
> the incremental cost of transporting the coffee weight, as well as disposal
> (below).
>
> Let's take a flight of fancy for a bit and assume you have something to do
> with
> all these coffee grounds. How do you expand? To me, this sounds like a
> good use
> of multi-level marketing. You have some other people who 'buy into' the
> thing, for the
> price of startup goods - in this case, tubs, wastebaskets, advertising
> propoganda,
> maybe a dumping grounds (see below), plus 15%. 13% is split among the
> upline
> somehow, standard MLM stuff, look at Creative Memories or somesuch.
>
> The other 2% goes to the parent company. Before you get to this point,
> incorporate!
> Seriously. Now, what to do with the 2%? At this point, you're bringing in
> thousands of
> pounds of coffee grounds a month, so do some research. Come up with a way
> to
> make biodiesel from them, or to make a car that runs off caffeine, or a
> biomass
> motor? Basically you want the next waste vegetable oil concept to come
> from
> you,
> using a resource for which you have the national monopoly. I figure you
> have a <1%
> chance of this working out for you, and a >10% chance of figuring out
> something that's
> almost cost-neutral (beyond composting obviously) just to get rid of coffee
> grounds,
> but you don't know which until you research.
>
> All that's left is to figure out what to do with the thousands of gallons
> of
> coffee
> grounds that you're collecting over the period between startup, and your
> impending
> revolutionary discovery. Lets say you have a bank of 10 88-gallon
> compostumblers
> (not recommending, just saying), can you come up with a recurring way to
> get
> rid of
> that much soil? Schools? Construction companies? Neighbors? The problem
> is
> that you'll quickly fill up the locals, and once you have to go way out of
> the way you've
> just dramatically increased your recurring costs. As an interim solution
> you could ask
> the city - if they collect yard waste they might already have mulch/compost
> available,
> and the right person might even let you add yours to theirs. The idea is
> that you're
> getting the stuff out of the garbage, maybe someone is using it, and you're
> not
> significantly going out of your way to do it. You could also burlap-bag it
> up by the
> 20-40 pounds and sell pallets at the home improvement stores, but remember
> you're
> looking at $3 per bag so it might not be worth it, except for the
> advertising effect.
>
> Alternatively you could set up a centralized distribution point - again I
> don't know DC
> so it might be more on the VA or MD side - where people could drive to get
> compost
> as they want it, bag it themselves, and give a donation as they please.
> (Don't feel
> constrained by your own property, I'm sure some farmer has some swampland
> that
> would work. You only have to go out as frequently as your trailer gets
> filled up.) Post
> flyers at the home improvement stores, if the managers will let you
> (probably will, as
> compost can't be that big a money-maker, and they want to look
> environmentally friendly).
> This distribution model ("big pit") has the advantage of allowing anyone in
> your MLM
> to conveniently drop their compost at any time, too, you just have to make
> sure it
> doesn't stink/pollute the water -and- that people don't start dumping trash
> all over it.
> While you're at it try to keep the soil from getting terrible...
>
> You could also set it up as a coop versus an MLM but I suspect that would
> wind up
> degrading pretty quickly. Despite not liking the concept of the MLM it
> does
> have a
> natural heirarchy that works pretty efficiently, as long as the top has the
> vision to keep
> things going, and they are really easy to spin off if the top doesn't. The
> coops tend
> to blow up without strong leadership, and don't handle big changes in
> character (for
> example, if you make some discovery) very well.
>
> Anyway, Waste Industries makes lots of cash with trash, so don't give up
> profitability
> quickly. Just be aware that you're going to have to fund everything for a
> long time, and
> probably never get a dime of it back.
>
> Crackpot business plan released, by me, just now, for use by MBZ readers;
> royalty
> free! ;)
>
> Actually I kind of like the concept, but I don't have the money or time to
> get it going.
> Maybe I'll come up with some magic plan for coffee grounds and then quietly
> start
> collecting them in the back yard. Or maybe I'll just join Andrew's
> downline
> after he's got
> the bugs worked out. :)
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Doubt its going to happen. I compost all or nearly all our food waste
> and
> > > realize that many (most?) people would freak at the idea. People get
> > really
> > > freaked out by the idea of today's rotting food being tomorrow's high
> > grade
> > > compost.
> > >
> > > So I presume you could get all your raw materials for free but there
> are
> > > significant questions about the safety of composting meat and dairy.
> I'm
> > hip
> > > to it but my compost rests around a year before being used. The
> important
> > > thing is to keep it hot and kill any potential pathogens. I think the
> > > problem as a business is going to be the amount that would need to
> move,
> > the
> > > amount space you'd need to do it and the time. Good compost can be made
> > > quickly (3-5 months) but it becomes more labor intensive...
> > >
> > > So you tell restaurants "okay I'll save you refuse haulage costs" ie
> > > they'll keep food out of their waste stream and thus limit the amount
> of
> > > refuse that they need to pay to get rid of. The problem is they need to
> > > separate... So you tell them you'll take paper too (you'll need the
> paper
> > to
> > > make good compost) but they have to measure they amount of effort the
> > > separation takes vs the amount they save...
> > >
> > > I dunno, seems unlikely to me, if garbage costs escallated though...
> > >
> > > -Curt
> > >
> > >
> > > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:37:45 -0500
> > > From: "andrew strasfogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT business idea - was Biodiesel *processor* for
> > > under $3k
> > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > >
> > > I am still waiting for input regarding a good business model for
> creating
> > a
> > > 100 percent safe and effective municipal composting program solely for
> > the
> > > region's restaurants and coffee shops. How this veered off into a
> > > political
> > > discussion is beyond me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________
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> > _______________________________________
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> _______________________________________
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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