Allan, I think you nailed the core issue with FAA. With metal fatigue there are clues that give advance warning it is happening. With composite construction, the clues are much harder to find and identify, plus, there is no way to take apart a composite assembly once it's "glued together" for inspection so you can find clues if there are any. Non-destructive testing, Xray, ultrasound, were all used and found lacking for clear definition of failure path.
That said, it was determined in FAA speak that it was impossible to establish a service life or cycle life on the component [whole airframe in this case], and they made the decision to terminate them from service with a buyback. "We're from the FAA and we are not happy until you are not happy" as a good friend of mine who is an FAA safety inspector says. Grant... On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Allan Streib <str...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote: > I think the FAA concern was less with the strength of the composites > than the then-unknowns of how they might fatigue over time. With more > than a few lessons about metal fatigue learned the hard way, they didn't > want to repeat that experience with composites. > > Larry T <l02tur...@comcast.net> writes: > > > Hi All. > > I always wondered what happened to them. IIRC, they had amazing > > performance. > > > > The FAA exhibits monarch type legislative oversight - likely rightfully > > so. The FAA is responsible for a large number of airplanes and by > > extension, passengers. Back when I was taking flying lessons i was > > always amazed at the extent of thought they put into the legislation.. > > Of course the need is obvious. > > > > Of course, 30+ years ago things were a little simpler with fewer space > > age materials available to the general public. I would think the F1 > > racing experience would help the Starship get farther along the > > legislative trail. They use composites for everything except engine and > > trans blocks I believe. Of course there are some internal parts > > engine/tranny parts > > that do not lend themselves to composites. But the technology has been > > well documented and tested - of course, getting the various groups to > > release proprietary information may be a tough row to hoe. > > > > Hopefully, sometime in the future, we'll see further acceptance in the > > General Aviation market. > > > > LarryT > > > > > > On 5/4/2013 10:48 PM, G Mann wrote: > >> Nothing. > >> > >> The problem was, the entire fleet sold only made a bit more than 50 > >> airplanes. The certification of an all composite airplane had never been > >> done [Beech spent millions and millions getting past FAA] and the FAA > has > >> no basis to establish service life on the composite parts, like wing > spars, > >> for example. The requirement to continue to supply service and parts > >> exceeded the profit potential for the fleet, no new sales or production > was > >> going to happen, so Beech did the only thing it could to save it's ass, > it > >> bought them all back. > >> > >> Short story, huge money involved, excellent aircraft, those who flew > them > >> or owned them loved them. It's my information they are all setting > stored > >> someplace, still. > >> > >> Grant... > >> > >> > >> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 6:37 PM, OK Don <okd...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> What was wrong with them? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 8:10 PM, G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> All Starships were removed from service, Beachcraft bought them all > back > >>>> and retired them.. except one. The owner refused to sell it back and > >>>> continues to use it. I believe it is the only flying Starship. > >>>> > >>>> Very good fellow pilot friend is a certified Starship pilot and flew > them > >>>> for years in corporate use. The information comes from him and I > consider > >>>> it reliable. > >>>> > >>>> I'll verify it with a phone call later tonight. > >>>> Likely, he knows both the airplane and the crew. > >>>> > >>>> Grant... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>> OK Don > >>> 2013 F150 > >>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG > >>> 1957 C182A > >>> _______________________________________ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >> _______________________________________ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- > Allan Streib > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
