On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:01:15 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot > water systems ( whole house) ? The posting I made to the list on 30 Dec 2012 and the two responses it received then are still appropriate: ==================================================================== From: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:22:27 -0700 Sender: "Mercedes" <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.10.4; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:00:36 -0600 Mountain Man <maontin....@gmail.com> wrote: > Someone mentioned tankless water heater but nobody mentioned > experience/caution. Do any of you have experience with tankless > electric heaters? Our old electric GE is too old to get parts so > tankless Stiebel (german) seems very nice. They have been doing > tankless for years. Most of the USA outfits seem to be china > implants. Any information/experience to steer me away from Stiebel or > toward USA tankless - thanks. We got a Seisco RA-22 electric tankless for our new laundry room. That was because we didn't have room for a tank heater and I didn't want to punch a hole through the roof for a vent stack for a gas-fired water heater. Seisco's website is at http://seisco.com/ I bought our water heater from their Internet Exclusive Distributor, http://www.tankless-water-heaters.com/ Dan's comments about low incoming water temperature are right on the mark. I purchased the next-size-larger water heater than our usage (laundry, bathroom sink and tub) would require because of low incoming water temperature. It works OK. If I had to do it again, I might get the next size up. As it is, our water heater uses two 50 A, 240 VAC breakers. I just recalled, though, that our line voltage drops significantly when the water heater comes on. That reduces the power available to heat the water. Maybe I ought to call the County Utilities and ask them to put a bigger feed to our house. I have been suscribed to "Ask the Builder" emails from Tim Carter for awhile. A recent one featured a commentary about tankless water heaters: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tip of the Week - Energy Retrofits - Return on Investment Myth The most recent issue of Remodeling magazine's cover story was about retrofitting houses with energy improvements. One part of the story listed the 10 Reasons to Retrofit. It said, and I quote, "Some people invest in energy retrofits because they want to help achieve energy independence or reduce greenhouse gases or reverse climate change. For everyone else here are 10 more tangible reasons." The first reason listed was: Save Money It then said, "Savings on energy bills vary but are immediate and will likely grow over time as prices increase." WRONG! Stop the train! That's a very misleading statement, and I see many publications say it all the time. I hear home improvement TV hosts say it. I hear it on home improvement radio shows. It's a half truth. It's bunk. Here is what I've said for years about saving money on energy improvements: You do NOT save money on energy improvements or retrofits UNTIL SUCH TIME as you pay yourself back all the money, PLUS interest, you spent to do the improvement or retrofit. You pay yourself back with the lower utility bills. After you have paid yourself back the money you spent, THEN you finally start to save money. Does that make sense? One of the retrofits they used as an example was a tankless water heater. Do you think you'll save money with one of those bad boys? Well, go read my past column about tankless water heaters - and read the comments at the bottom of the column!!! http://www.askthebuilder.com/tankless-water-heaters/?awt_l=BqPkw&awt_m=JN1wCuFoPrNiL5 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Craig ==================================================================== From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:16 -0600 Sender: "Mercedes" <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> Good Stuff! Thanks! Seems a tankless heater is kinda like buying a pious to save money over driving a comfortable, long lasting MB mechanically injected Diesel. False economy. I never heard the part about having to wait a minute longer to actually get hot water before. I recently investigated replacing a commercial water heater with tankless. One mfgr told me it would take 12! (yes, 12 tankless heaters!) to replace the one commercial heater. Law requires 180º at the faucet, so 190 or 195 is required at the tank. None of the tankless heaters I found could do that. All topped out at 180º setting, so 180 or less at the heater. Not legal at the faucet. Best position I have found for a tankless heater is in a preheat position in front of a regular heater. That way your GPM flow rate can increase without doubling the storage tank capacity. Nobody seems to make'm bigger than 100 gal in commercial, although the recovery is much faster than household. One nice thing about tankless is the variable burner. If you have a steady demand over many hours,and higher demand on occasion, a tankless might work. But for normal households, with use in morning and evening, it may not make sense. ==================================================================== From: Mitch Haley <m...@voyager.net> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 08:51:21 -0500 Sender: "Mercedes" <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) What's the power factor on a tankless electric heater? Traditional tank style are usually around 92%, which I interpret as 100% efficient at heating water and 92% efficient at keeping it hot until you use it. I think I paid $218 for a 40 gallon GE at Home Depot last month. It's real hard to save enough to overcome the price difference over the lifetime of the tankless, especially if the tankless loses efficiency as hard water deposits build up inside it. Mitch. ==================================================================== Craig _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
