The fate of many moderated lists seem to be a gradually increasing belligerence on the part of the moderator; in this case "pulling back a bloody stump".
Good luck, bear.  (grin)
Gerry....who has no trouble using the delete key in any list.

I don't see the relevance to the list or it's intent.  If people want to push 
the envelope I'm going to err on the side of caution, meaning I'll mod first 
and ask questions second.  We need to get this place back on track, and trying 
to find ways to skirt the issue at hand is far from constructive.

Again, I don't want to be a jerk or see this turn into the Hitler list, but 
some of this stuff has minimal MB content at best and only serves to open the 
door for more controversy.  If common sense would suggest that the topic isn't 
relevant or even slightly inflammatory, don't.

I suggest that anyone who has a question about content or posts drop me a 
private note. If you want to poke the bear you risk pulling back a bloody stump.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 13, 2014, at 2:35 PM, "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
<arche...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

You mean we can't even post legitimate news sources about solar manufacturing 
plants and solar farms that will provide electricity for our electric Mercedes?
For example, here's such a story from Reuters:

.....................
(Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections 
between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could 
lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his 
staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions 
routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the 
Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an 
effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar 
farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the 
company during a 2011 trip to China 
<http://www.reuters.com/places/china?lc=int_mb_1001> and applying his political 
muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las 
Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) 
desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where 
Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.

Craig Holman, a lobbyist for the non-partisan advocacy group Public Citizen, said the senator is 
dealing with "an iffy ethical landscape" because of the family connections and should 
recuse himself from the project. "Is this just happening because ... it benefits the Reid 
family, or did Harry Reid actually believe in this?" Holman said.

The senator has supported numerous clean energy projects in Nevada. Rory Reid 
cites energy as one of his specialty areas at the law firm.

The two Reids deny discussing the ENN project.
You mean we can't even post legitimate news sources about solar manufacturing 
plants and solar farms that will provide electricity for our electric Mercedes?
For example, here's such a story from Reuters:

....................
(Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections 
between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could 
lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his 
staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions 
routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the 
Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an 
effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar 
farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the 
company during a 2011 trip to China 
<http://www.reuters.com/places/china?lc=int_mb_1001> and applying his political 
muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las 
Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) 
desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where 
Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.

Craig Holman, a lobbyist for the non-partisan advocacy group Public Citizen, said the senator is 
dealing with "an iffy ethical landscape" because of the family connections and should 
recuse himself from the project. "Is this just happening because ... it benefits the Reid 
family, or did Harry Reid actually believe in this?" Holman said.

The senator has supported numerous clean energy projects in Nevada. Rory Reid 
cites energy as one of his specialty areas at the law firm.

The two Reids deny discussing the ENN project.

"I have never discussed the project with my father or his staff," said Rory 
Reid. Kristen Orthman, a spokeswoman for the senator, said he had not discussed the 
project with his son.

The Langfang, China-based ENN Energy Group hopes to build what would be the 
largest solar energy complex in America. The site chosen with Rory Reid's 
guidance is in tiny Laughlin, Nevada, a gambling town of 7,300 along the 
Colorado River, 90 miles south of Las Vegas.

County officials have said that they were so thrilled to recruit a company to 
the area, with the prospect of thousands of new local jobs, that they were 
eager to negotiate.

ENN is headed by Chinese energy tycoon Wang Yusuo, who made a fortune estimated by Forbes at 
$2.2 billion distributing natural gas 
<http://www.reuters.com/sectors/industries/overview?industryCode=185&lc=int_mb_1001> 
in China <http://www.reuters.com/places/china?lc=int_mb_1001>. Wang escorted Reid and a 
delegation of nine other U.S. senators on a tour of the company's clean energy operations in 
Langfang, and Reid featured Wang as a speaker at his 4th annual National Clean Energy Summit in 
Las Vegas last year.

NEVADA'S LARGEST LAW FIRM

To advance the Nevada project, ENN retained the state's largest and most 
prestigious law firm - Lionel Sawyer & Collins, where Rory Reid works. It is 
headed by Richard Bryan, a former Nevada attorney general, governor and member of 
the U.S. Senate.

Rory Reid faced a one-year cooling off period from lobbying the Clark County 
commission after leaving his post in January 2011, and Bryan took the lead on 
ENN's negotiations with the county.

Since the one-year ban expired, Rory Reid has been ENN's primary representative 
before the county, according to Steve Sisolak, the board's vice chairman.

Rory Reid acknowledged representing ENN at both the county and state levels 
since January. He declined to discuss the project otherwise.

Two months after Harry Reid's China trip, Lionel Sawyer registered ENN Mohave 
Energy LLC as an American subsidiary of the Chinese company. The firm 
negotiated with the county to buy the land rather than lease it, as the 
county's staff had recommended.

In December, Clark County commissioners voted unanimously to sell up to 9,000 
acres of public land to the subsidiary at pennies on the dollar.

The deal spurred local controversy. Separate appraisals valued the land at 
$29.6 million and $38.6 million. The commission agreed to sell it to ENN for 
$4.5 million.

The county did build in certain conditions before the project could begin, 
including milestones for jobs creation and investment. ENN also must assure the 
county that it has a power company willing to commit to buying energy from the 
solar farm. But in the eight months since the commissioners approved the deal, 
no utility has signed a power purchase agreement.

However, Harry Reid stepped up again.

The Democrat recently used an online discussion related to his annual energy 
summit for an as-yet unsuccessful effort to pressure Nevada's largest power 
company, NV Energy, to sign up as ENN's first customer.

In the July 30 discussion, Reid said the project "would start tomorrow if NV Energy would 
purchase the power." The utility controls "95 percent of all of the electricity that is 
produced in Nevada and they should go along with this." Reid's online comments were first 
reported by the Las Vegas Review Journal.

The power company responded by saying it had exceeded its minimum renewable 
energy requirements both last year and this year, though it would consider 
buying power from ENN in the future. A spokesman for NV Energy declined to 
discuss the matter further.

Bryan, the head of the law firm, did not return repeated phone calls and emails.

An official with ENN in Langfang did not respond to emails.

In 2007, after a controversy over the number of lawmaker relatives engaged in 
lobbying, Congress passed the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, 
sharply restricting the lobbying activities of close relatives of members of 
Congress.

The law only applies to registered lobbyists and Rory Reid is not registered as 
a federal lobbyist in Washington or a state lobbyist in Nevada, according to 
records in both jurisdictions.

Gerry....who believes you can seldom discuss anything without eventually 
getting into politics.



On 4/13/2014 1:21 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
This has gone on long enough. Politics are not an appropriate list topic as has 
been pointed out numerous times in the past, and of late have overshadowed 
nearly everything else.

Take it somewhere else, folks. There will be no further warnings. Posting 
political topics will get you moderated.

I would rather see the traffic drop off than to have to constantly hit "Delete".

Wilton, time for a Sondy tale, please.

ListDan

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 13, 2014, at 1:11 PM, Rich Thomas <richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> 
wrote:

YOU WERE WARNED but since you are here

http://www.michellesmirror.com/2014/04/beyond-clive-bundy-real-range-war-and.html

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2014/04/black-helicopters.html

--R


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