Thank you Karl. This is very helpful. Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 10:42 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Kaleb, I agree that this epidemic has been disruptive to the economy. But > the economic pain will be far greater if the epidemic continues to affect > the US disproportionately to other countries. > > The article is good. But it makes no mention of CO2 or O2. This is because > all that gas exchange concern is complete crap designed to make people > afraid of masks. Don't listen to it. Something like a billion people are > wearing them and somehow surviving just fine. This is common sense. I wear > one all day every day. The article describes lack of evidence for mask > effectiveness for influenza, which believe it or not acts differently from > this virus because it is less often asymptomatic/minimally symptomatic and > it is not shed in high quantities early in the illness before severe > symptoms develop. I actually had this discussion with our head of hospital > epi at the beginning of the epidemic, and he came at me with the lack of > evidence for public wearing the mask. Not to repeat myself, but sometimes > you have to make policy on less than watertight evidence. And the evidence > for mask effectiveness is stronger for this disease, partly as a result of > the disease and partly as a result of us devoting more resources to > answering this question. > > You have nothing to lose by wearing a mask, except the mask cost and slight > inconvenience of adjusting behavior. > > Flying is a lot lower risk now that no one is doing it. Incidentally the > original airliners were 100% fresh cabin air from the vents, but my dad > told me yesterday that they were pulling too much power from the turbine > compressors so they reduced it to the current 50% back in the 60/70s. The > other problem is that the vents blow down and mix the warm air rising from > the humans below. That will require redesign of aircraft even though the > vent air is hepa filtered. Problem is recirculation of the air in the > cabin; lots of it is not filtered at all. > > You cannot just reject the curve numbers. Locking down definitely slowed > transmission in Los Angeles. Our curve flattened with lockdown, then > started rising again three weeks after reopening began, specifically 3 > weeks after Memorial Day weekend. I agree lockdowns are unprecedented and > that there was therefore no evidence that they work, but consider there is > no evidence that parachutes save skydivers either. Kind of hard to find > controls for that study. > > You are right that for a majority of people this is a mild illness. That > does not mean you will be in that majority, or people that you love, or > even people in your church if you go to one. We still do not understand all > the reasons for this. Certainly age, obesity and gender are risk factors. > But they do not explain the otherwise healthy 41 year olds being > hospitalized for 6 weeks. Not a majority, but it is happening. And we have > lots of elderly and diabetic people in the nation, and people on > immunosuppressive drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, organ > transplantattion etc. Kind of cynical to tell them good luck but not do > anything to help them reduce their risk of getting sick. > > Controlling this thing is not a very big deal economically or personally. > NOT controlling it will be very costly to the economy over a long period of > time. Decide which version of america you want to live in for the next year > or two, and act accordingly. I would submit that hope is not a strategy, > and that the beatings the virus is giving us will continue until morale > improves. > > PS I found a used 2.88 diff on ebay. There were two of them, one 400 > dollars but it was already sent to the crusher, and one 499 a guy had in > huntington beach. Reinvent has one but they want the typical 700 dollar > fortune for it. > > One can play the "Youth is on my side and too bad for you" game, but that > is sort of a bad attitude IMHO. Do unto others etc. > > Karl > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:27 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of > > contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back > > on. Here is an article I found from several years ago. > > > > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/ > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when > > venturing outside and mingling with other people. > > > > > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It > > has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common > sense. > > If you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise > there > > is so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has > > done any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One > thing > > is certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying > again > > and I am not the least bit concerned. > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our > > numbers > > >> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very > > >> > successful. Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven > facts > > for > > >> > political agenda. If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need > > to > > >> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the > > >> > recommendations. > > >> > > > >> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around > other > > >> > people, period. And the federal government needs to step up and > make > > this > > >> > statement. > > >> > > > >> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and > discuss... > > you > > >> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong > political > > >> > bias. Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that > > this > > >> > is a respiratory disease people die from. And wearing a mask and > > avoid > > >> > others reduces its spread. It’s very simple. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is > becoming > > >> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal > > as they > > >> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive > > because we > > >> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because > many > > people > > >> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them. > > >> >> > > >> >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> >> > > >> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes < > > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, > > >> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns. Big > > economic hit, > > >> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather > > than > > >> >> induced economic downturn. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case > load > > down > > >> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the > > things that > > >> >> got it down in the first place. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to > vacation > > >> >> spots recently, for instance. Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO > > reason to > > >> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going > > there > > >> >> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public. > > >> >> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main > reason > > for > > >> >> going..... > > >> >>> > > >> >>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no > > >> >> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to > treat > > it > > >> >> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the > > >> >> 1940's. Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked > > pretty > > >> >> well in 1918 too) and stay at home! > > >> >>> > > >> >>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people > > before > > >> >> the unwashed masses figure it out. > > >> >>> _______________________________________ > > >> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > > >> >>> > > >> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > >> >>> > > >> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > >> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________ > > >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com > > >> >> > > >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > >> >> > > >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > >> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> > Jaime Kopchinski > > >> > http://www.jaimekop.com/ > > >> > _______________________________________ > > >> > http://www.okiebenz.com > > >> > > > >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > >> > > > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________ > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > > >> > > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > >> > > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > >> > > _______________________________________ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
