On 13/09/17 03:00, Ian Romanick wrote:
On 09/11/2017 09:44 PM, Timothy Arceri wrote:
On 12/09/17 14:23, Ian Romanick wrote:
On 09/08/2017 01:59 AM, Kenneth Graunke wrote:
On Thursday, September 7, 2017 4:26:04 PM PDT Jordan Justen wrote:
On 2017-09-06 14:12:41, Daniel Schürmann wrote:
Hello together!
Recently, we had a small discussion (off the list) about the NIR
serialization, which was previously discussed in [RFC] ARB_gl_spirv
and
NIR backend for radeonsi.
As this topic could be interesting to more people, I would like to
share, what was talked about so far (You might want to read from
bottom up).
TL;DR:
- NIR serialization is in demand for shader cache
- could be done either directly (NIR binary form) or via SPIR-V
- Ian et al. are working on GLSL IR -> SPIR-V transformation, which
could be adapted for a NIR -> SPIR-V pass
- in NIR representation, some type information is lost
- thus, a serialization via SPIR-V could NOT be a glslang alternative
(otoh, the GLSL IR->SPIR-V pass could), but only for spirv-opt (if the
output is valid SPIR-V)
Ian,
Tim was suggesting that we might look at serializing nir for the i965
shader cache. Based on this email, it sounds like serialized nir would
not be enough for the shader cache as some GLSL type info would be
lost. It sounds like GLSL IR => SPIR-V would be good enough. Is that
right?
I don't think we have a strict requirement for the GLSL IR => SPIR-V
path for GL 4.6, right? So, this is more of a 'nice-to-have'?
I'm not sure we'd want to make i965 shader cache depend on a
nice-to-have feature. (Unless we're pretty sure it'll be available
soon.)
But, it would be nice to not have to fallback to compiling the GLSL
for i965 shader cache, so it would be worth waiting a little bit to be
able to rely on a SPIR-V serialization of the GLSL IR.
What do you suggest?
-Jordan
We shouldn't use SPIR-V for the shader cache.
The compilation process for GLSL is: GLSL -> GLSL IR -> NIR -> i965 IRs.
Storing the content at one of those points, and later loading it and
resuming the normal compilation process from that point...that's totally
reasonable.
Having a fallback for "some things in the cache but not all the variants
we needed" suddenly take a different compilation pipeline, i.e. SPIR-V
-> NIR -> ... seems risky. It's a different compilation path that we
don't normally use. And one you'd only hit in limited circumstances.
There's a lot of potential for really obscure bugs.
Since we're going to expose exactly that path for GL_ARB_spirv / OpenGL
4.6, we'd better make sure it works always. Right?
One nice thing about SPIR-V is that all of the handling of uniform
layouts, initial uniform values, attribute locations, etc. is already
serialized. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of the big pain points
for all of the existing on-disk storage methods. All of that has been
sorted out for SPIR-V, and we have to make it work anyway.
Correct these are the main issues for the fallback path, however this is
only used by i965 (exactly because an intermediate cache is missing).
Using SPIR-V as the intermediate cache means we still need to convert to
NIR and run all the opts, so I don't really see the advantage of caching
to SPIR-V over NIR.
The advantage is that we have N code paths instead of N+1. Maintenance
is the biggest cost in software development.
But a SPIR-V cache has a N+1 code path, and it's going to be more
untested than NIR serialization would be. NIR serialization should slot
seamlessly into the existing code paths. e.g If we don't see NIR in the
buffer when we need to do a variant recompilation we just load it from
disk. Loading SPIR-V from disk would require a separate code path to
fallback and recreate the NIR, this path would not always be hit and
therefore will be much less tested. As Ken points out GLSL IR -> SPIR-V
is another code path on top of this, it's fine if you want to make a
glslang alternative but there in no requirement/need to convert to
SPIR-V for ordinary GL shaders.
I've also just sent a series that introduces some basic NIR linking [1]
ultimately once we have a NIR packing pass we should be able to drop
more GLSL IR opts and get even better results from using NIR. I would
expect caching to SPIR-V would make variant fallback paths even more
complicated for NIR based linking.
[1] https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/30249/
Also there is going to be a requirement for a NIR cache for any of the
Gallium nir based drivers (which possibly includes radeonsi in future).
Serializing NIR, and possibly a few auxiliary structures that we need,
seems reasonable. Although, just using the GLSL seemed reasonable to
me as well, but I guess that's proven to be painful?
--Ken
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