Okay, thank you for the hint! I think, I want to exclude empty sets in
the family with my definition of _iDisj_ . So we would have an
equivalence only for this case.

$p ( ( -. (/) e. ran B ) -> ( _iDisj_ B <-> Disj_ x e. A B ) ) $= ? $.

Am 15.12.2024 um 23:18 schrieb Mario Carneiro:
That doesn't match the other of the two examples I gave: the family x
e. A |-> (/) is always a disjoint family. This is not injective as a
function because (/) is returned many times.

On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 4:57 PM Peter Dolland <[email protected]>
wrote:

    However, I would prefer to define the disjointness of an *indexed
    family* by ensuring the injectivness of the index map:

    _iDisj_ iMap <-> ( Fun `' iMap /\  _disj_ ran iMap )

    What do you think about?

    Am 14.12.2024 um 23:09 schrieb Peter Dolland:

    Okay, thank you, I see the difference.

    Am 14.12.2024 um 21:04 schrieb Mario Carneiro:
    `Disj_ x e. A B` is about disjointness of an *indexed family* of
    sets B(x), where x ranges over the index set A. It says that if
    B(x) and B(y) share a common element, then x = y. This is a
    stronger notion than disjointness of a set of sets, which is
    what your _disj_ does, since here you can conclude only that if
    B(x) and B(y) share a common element then B(x) = B(y). For
    example, a family of empty sets of any cardinality is a disjoint
    family, and a family of sets x e. A |-> { 0 } is disjoint if and
    only if A has at most one element. You cannot express the latter
    theorem using _disj_, because if you try to convert the indexed
    family into a set of sets you just get { { 0 } } (or (/) if A is
    empty) which is a disjoint family of sets.

    Conversely, you can define _disj_ in terms of Disj_ though:
    _disj_ A <-> Disj x e. A x .

    On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 8:57 PM 'Peter Dolland' via Metamath
    <[email protected]> wrote:

        Can anybody help me to understand the definition of
        Disjointness:

             df-disj $a |- ( Disj_ x e. A B <-> A. y E* x e. A y e.
        B ) $.

        ? What means x, A, and B  here?

        What about my alternative definition as 1-ary predicate:

        _disj_ A <-> A. B e. A A. C e. A ( B = C \/ B i^i C = (/) )

        ? Would it be provable:

        $p _disj_ A <-> Disj_ x e. A B $= ? $.

        ?

        Thank you for your help!

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