-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: Count Deiro <countde...@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 12, 2011 8:09 AM
>To: Martin Altmann <altm...@meteorite-martin.de>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Surface Area or Weight
>
>List and mein guter Freund Martin,
>
>Martin has said "One of the most important points, which overrules most of the
>others...availability.."
>
>I agree and that factor was in my assumptions where I mention "current
>availability".
>
>Regards to all,
>
>Count Deiro
>IMA 3536 METSOC
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Martin Altmann <altm...@meteorite-martin.de>
>>Sent: Feb 12, 2011 3:20 AM
>>To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Surface Area or Weight
>>
>>Hello Count,
>>
>>one of the most important points, which overrules most of the others would be
>>in my eyes:
>>
>>Availability
>>
>>It's in principle the same as in philately, numismatics ect...
>>That what is most difficult to obtain, no matter what it is, or of which
>>quality, fetches the highest price.
>>
>>It's funny - you know me, I am very worried, how some bushed minds these
>>years are trying to bring national and World meteoritics to a halt in
>>introducing legal bans of ownership, export, hunting and trade -
>>and their main argument is unison, that private collecting would have made
>>meteorites unaffordable for science.
>>(In fact historically just the opposite had happened, like any curator, who
>>takes his job seriously, knows).
>>
>>But what are by far the most expensive meteorites on the market?
>>
>>Those where most of the tkw is locked in museums and institutional
>>collections and where almost no grams are available on the free market.
>>And that independently from the histrorical meaning or the type of the
>>location.
>>
>>Hence just these locations and meteorites those protagonists already do have
>>and always had at hand in their collections.
>>
>>Historic example - India. India - with the exception of a short episode in
>>czarist Russia, was quite the only country, which had a strong protectionism
>>and a ban of private ownership of meteorites, in very early times.
>>
>>Consequence - already in 19th century, at Cohen's times, Indian meteorites
>>where by far the most expensive meteorites of the world. For an ordinary
>>chondrite from India, one had to pay 10, 20, 40 times more than for an
>>ordinary chondrite falling in Europe or Northern America.
>>
>>So still today, a meteorite, from the same period, a fall from the same
>>historical year, can cost a fraction of a meteorite fallen or found in the
>>same year, even if it has a much lower tkw and is of a much rare type, than
>>the latter locked in institutional collections or from a country banning
>>ownership and export.
>>
>>Other modern more instantaneous example.
>>Due to certain circumstances only small amounts of Tagish Lake were firstly
>>allowed to leave the country and to be sold on the free market. The
>>availability was therefore strongly and artificially limited.
>>Therefore - an quite unique event - it was unnecessarily insanely priced. It
>>had cost four, five times more than any historic Ivuna or Orgueil at that
>>time. ...with very bad consequences, as the eyewitnesses and others were not
>>allowed to rescue more material, but those, who forbade them to do so, then
>>omitted to save most of the tkw,
>>the national geological survey had to buy from the finders in the end
>>material at this extremely high price, which they by their own had created in
>>not allowing material leaving the country - and in the end the Canadian tax
>>payer paid 800,000 CND - with inflation 1 million USD today - for samples,
>>which without that intervention of the Canadian survey to restrict the
>>availability would have cost 200,000 USD - and if they would have allowed the
>>normal people to rescue the main load of that meteorite in a timely manner -
>>perhaps only 50,000$.
>>...well, a sad accident,
>>But other than the Australians, Omani, Argentines, Danish, Algerians and so
>>on,
>>the Canadian meteoricists are intelligent and reasonable people, and other
>>than the Bevanists of our days,
>>they sat personal narrow-minded motives and that almost folkloristic
>>hatefulness towards private collectors aside,
>>and decided for the need of science to ease the legal practice.
>>With very convincing success.
>>Remember Buzzard Coulee - because private collectors and professional hunters
>>were not only allowed to collect them, but also got export permits - it was
>>cheaper than any Whetstone or Mifflin.
>>And that, what Arnold & Notkin did with historical Brenham in USA,
>>became then suddenly possible at all with historical Springwater in Canada.
>>Or think to the now still growing tkw - after years - of the newer Canadian
>>crater iron (where I always forget the name).
>>
>>Or third example, how decisive availability is for a meteorite price and how
>>fast a changed availability will change the prices.
>>
>>Sikhote-Alin. When it firstly became a little better available in the
>>1990ies, Sikhote was paid up to 9$ a gram (then). After 2000, when our
>>industrious Russian colleagues brought huge amounts to the free market,
>>we had a period of 5 or 6 years, where the standard price, also for the best
>>quality was 0.30$ a gram.
>>Now the last years the strewnfield was exhausted.
>>And today the collectors and curators are crying, that they have to pay for
>>pieces, where they now say Aaaah and Ooooh, but where just still 3-4 years
>>ago on each large show hundreds of such were available and dozens a week on
>>ebay,
>>again 1, 2 sometimes 3$/g - and for those smaller ones, where it was always a
>>fun on the shows, to pick the small super-oriented from the dozens of boxes -
>>all at the same price - 5$ or sometimes 10$ a gram.
>>
>>
>>Another point would be,
>>if your point "Provenance" is meant only for "Pedegree"-specimens,
>>that one should include there also the geographical provenance.
>>An H5 or an L6 falling in USA today will get 20-40$ a gram and more,
>>the same H5 and L6 with the same quality of the specimens falling in a
>>Maghreb country will be paid with 2-4$ a gram. (Still...).
>>
>>
>>Third idea would be the point: Prestige.
>>
>>The prestige a collector acquires with a specimen.
>>(That could include several other points like Pedigree, aesthetics and new
>>fashions like that Hammer-thing).
>>
>>Prestige would help to cover such occurrences like e.g. that a West was paid
>>like historic Weston
>>or that for a LaPize or an Almahata so very unusual prices were paid.
>>
>>Aesthetics,
>>that is an own segment of the market, outstanding specimens, specimens with
>>unusual features,
>>specimens of an unusual quality are dealt uncoupled from their fellows of the
>>same find.
>>There the pork-belly-method: Standard price of the locales or that meteorite
>>+ a little x if it's nice,
>>isn't applied. They are sold like other high-end pieces in other fields of
>>collection,
>>they are sold as true one of a kind-specimens.
>>
>>On large scale, like for instance a super oriented complete planetary,
>>as well as on a little scale, for specimens which show particularities other
>>specimens of the same meteorite or of the same type do not have.
>>
>>Example for the latter, hehe, take the NWA 6022.
>>It deserves a much higher price - but because we set it somewhat below the
>>standard starting price of the most available and common, and therefore
>>cheapest R - NWA 753,
>>it sells extremely quickly - much faster than a more common rumurutiite would
>>go at that price.
>>- because the fantastic rim, aside other unusual aspects, is not found in any
>>other R-chondrite,
>>such a feature even the oldest veteran collector hasn't yet in his collection
>>and it is aesthetically seen an amazing eye-catcher, hence something the big
>>collector doesn't let disappear in the drawers with the reference sample, but
>>sets it somewhere in one of his showcases.
>>
>>Hence that R, which you're about missing out.
>>Would have been sold out in less than a day, though this time, many of our
>>US-collectors simply hadn't seen the AD, cause they were in Tucson,
>>so forgive me my laziness to show it again to some of them in private mails
>>and to abuse that posting for a shameless advertizing (which in the end will
>>make at least 4 collectors very happy).
>>Anyway 3 slices and the partial endcut left. (Additionally to those marked as
>>sold, the 14.0g is gone too).
>>
>>http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/special-nwa6022.html
>>
>>Best!
>>Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
>>[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Count
>>Deiro
>>Gesendet: Samstag, 12. Februar 2011 02:19
>>An: Thunder Stone; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Surface Area or Weight
>>
>>Greg and List,
>>
>>I make the following assumptions as to Fair Market Value if we are dealing
>>with a representative, equal weight, specimen of the same classification.
>>
>>Ranking in order of desireability and value to an average collector. Not a
>>specialist in analysis, or classification, or other defined, non collecting,
>>motivation.
>>
>>Total weight and rarity of the classification.
>>Weight of the specimen.
>>Provenance.
>>Historic
>>A hammer.
>>A fall.
>>An oriented crusted individual.
>>A crusted individual.
>>A polished crusted endcut.
>>A polished crusted full slice.
>>A polished crusted partial slice.
>>A frag.
>>A bessie spec, or micro.
>>
>>Thin sections are a world of their own and can be of more value in weight
>>than an individual.
>>Preparation in cut, etch and polishing materially affect value.
>>Higher ratios of field to dimension increase value in slices.
>>Mounting, info cards and packaging affect value of all specimens.
>>The current availability is always an up and down factor.
>>Stone meteorites tend to bring more money per gram than mesosiderites, or
>>irons, all things considered. particularly in the rarer classifications.
>>
>>These are my off the top of my head assumptions based on the past two years
>>of blowing my entire spendable income of meteorites. Go ahead! Tear it apart!
>>
>>Count Deiro
>>IMCA 3536 MetSoc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
